The Climate.

[cee-dee]

It seems that tempers have been raised over a BBC radio interview about the issue of Climate Change (they don't call it "Global Warming" now?).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40899188

Now instead of attacking the BBC (and Lawson) it would have been much better the have picked over points raised and refuted them (if possible)?

I don't think there's any doubt that things are warming but it's what's causing it that's at issue. Those taking the climate change position attribute it to human intervention but those taking the opposing view don't seem to make much issue about what's happened on Earth before as shown in the natural "records" in soil samples, tree records and levels of flood deposits, all those when there was very little in the way of "human intervention".

[**bustysinclaire**]

My views on climate change wouldn't be welcome here then CD?

[cee-dee]

You're welcome to give your views on how the climate has fluctuated over the ages and perhaps give a view on how, at one time virtually the whole Planet was covered in ice or give a view on how some parts of the Planet, which are at present covered in ice were once covered in verdant vegetation?

[**bustysinclaire**]

Thank you CD.

But if I do respond with my views even on those particular topics within the subject of climate, especially the how, it will actually include Bible based matter so on that basis I'm excluded.

I would be very interested to read others views on our planets climate.

[cee-dee]

The age old reasons for things that couldn't be explained by Age-Old Man was that it was the work of the mysterious being that contolled everything. That's clearly not correct as is evident that the World was not created, it evolved.

Threads are rarely concerned with religion because each claims to be "the one" so any thread remotely connected to that subject is guaranteed to cause argument.

Now proper argument is debating opposing points of view with reasons (and proof) given on all sides. Lots of people just cannot see that arguing a point is completely different to having an argument.

Religion is and was not not part of the argument in nearly all the threads where a JW issue was brought in to it and sooner or later an argument results.

[j_uk643]

Threads are rarely concerned with religion 

lolol

[dark_castle1]

Well some say cows are the biggest contributor to global warming so instead of banning diesel and petrol vehicles why not ban cows from FARTING !!!!!

[fallen-archie]

Wonder if anyone has measured the human output? And it's effect?

[**bustysinclaire**]

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@dark_castle1 wrote:

Well some say cows are the biggest contributor to global warming so instead of banning diesel and petrol vehicles why not ban cows from FARTING !!!!!

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Noooooo, you musn't do that. Make it a sustainable source of energy. 😀

Come to think of it, humans could be useful in the same way too. Lol

Where I live they are actually using humans as a source of energy,.  The energy given off from the local crematorium furnaces power the heating of the next door swimming pool. wonder if that is contributing to global warming and in turn having an effect on the climate?

[astrologica]

In the 19th century they used to put prisoners on the treadmill. they would be on the mills for hours at a time, with no actual benefit or productive result. Could we not build huge treadmills attached to the National Grid, and put prisoners to work on them in order to produce man power? There is no shortage of prisoners, and they would be paying back to society and keeping fit at the same time. There could be reductions in sentences for the most productive prisoners. Any reduction in the use of fossil or nuclear energy would benefit our world and it seems a shame to waste all that manpower.

[theelench]

Similar thoughts had occurred to me but I would put the treadmills in job centers as well.  Many of the unemployed round here seem to spend a lot of time at the local gym and others seem to struggle with weight problems.  Everyone would gain something from your idea -- health service, taxpayer and the individuals "treading" because they would feel better about themselves knowing they were giving something back to society and getting fitter by doing so.

[theelench]

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@cee-dee wrote:

I don't think there's any doubt that things are warming but it's what's causing it that's at issue. Those taking the climate change position attribute it to human intervention but those taking the opposing view don't seem to make much issue about what's happened on Earth before as shown in the natural "records" in soil samples, tree records and levels of flood deposits, all those when there was very little in the way of "human intervention".

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That's what I find more than a little troubling about the debate as well.  It seems that the pro-global warming side are allowed to pick and choose the bits of evidence that suit them without being picked up on the historical evidence that the same things have happened before, when human activity couldn't have been a factor.

I've seen it said that because we can now grow grapes outdoors in Southern England and make wine it's proof of climate change, but the Romans did that.  It's on record that British white was much appreciated in Roman society.

I recently read that although Northern Europe is getting warmer at the moment it will soon get much colder.  Something to do with the melting sea-ice (or lack of it) at the North Pole affecting the North Atlantic Conveyor sea current,  causing the Gulf Stream to move south.  This will cause warmer, wetter air to have more influence in the Mediterranean Basin but leaving N.W Europe more under the influence of the Arctic.  

In turn this will increase rain-fall in the countries of Southern Europe and N. Africa.  Again it's on record that the south of France, Italy and Greece had forests and abundant woodland in early historical times and N.Africa had vast areas of grassland, lakes and rivers. 

Early Greek explorers left records of seeing ice-bergs amongst the fog banks in the North Sea and garbled accounts of what seem to be Walrus in Scotland or Northern England. 

Doesn't that indicate that the Gulf Stream was more to the south than it is now?  More perplexing to me is the speed with which things changed and why.  The early Greek stories were only a few centuries before the Romans were growing grapes in more or less the same latitude and historical Romans were able to import Giraffe from isolated pockets of grassland in North Africa not long before Julius Caeser arrived in Britain.  Yes, something changes the climate significantly and with worrying regularity, to blame it all on burning fossil fuel seems to me to be the easiest answer, but probably not the correct one.

[fallen-archie]

In a loosely related observation, I wonder whether rising sea levels might be addressed by the provision of solar powered desalination plants built across the African continent and elsewhere to stop this constant drought suffered by so many and to enable folk to feed themselves by growing crops in areas that are currently devoid of life. To me that would be one way we in the west could make a huge impact on poor economies whilst at the same time improving the quality of lives for millions. It may also counter to a small extent rising sea levels!

[cee-dee]

That's a good thought but would it encourage an increase in birth-rate and survival there coupled with more of them trying to come here?

[fallen-archie]

Most of the countries involved have spiralling birth rates however we know that this can be managed with education and birth control, evolution in the west has proven that such control is possible and tbh we need to do something if the planet is to survive.