JFK .... 50 years on.

[blackburn_stevie]

Previously unseen footage  of the shooting has been released using the 50 year rule.

Claims are being made that the headwound was caused by a shot from the driver of the presidential limo.

Here's a link to the video.

http://tinyurl.com/o5pzx7l

What do you think?

[cee-dee]

This warrants a thread on it's own but does anyone know of ANY conspiracy theories that were eventually established and officially accepted as a fact? Was Watergate just a theory at one time? Yeah, I know there was a cover-up there but.......

Think of any subject where something has been "officially" decided and it seems there's always followers of conflicting theories no matter how off-the-wall they are.

I know that some prisoners have continually protested their innocence and eventually new forensic evidence has established that they were innocent all along but many convicted prisoners have continually appealed in spite of almost overwhelming evidence to prove them guilty and those cases are argued in the same way that "conspiracy theories" are argued = keep it up long enough and others will join in.

[renomarvinm]

Hi cee-dee!  I don't know of any.  Usually the mainstream media (the fourth estate) blows the whistle and pulls the plug when the evidence of wrong doing becomes visible enough.  That's what happened with Watergate, for example.

The nearest that the goofy fringe ever came to a real expose (as far as I can remember, anyway) was when the staff member on the National Enquirer contracted anthrax from a letter received in the mail, and died from it.  That was shortly after 9/11.  Definitely NOT the best journalistic technique....

[the-geezer]

Was the idea to throw everyone off the trail, was there a 'trail' to follow or just misinformation?

[tommy.irene]

JFK’s Irish driver in Dallas was secret member of anti-Catholic Orange Order New details on William Greer’s past revealed on anniversary of assassination

By 

JAMES O'SHEA,

 

IrishCentral Staff Writer

Published Friday, November 22, 2013, 7:19 AM

Updated Friday, November 22, 2013, 9:18 AM

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24 Comments

See more: US Crime  

William "Bill" Greer from County Tyrone, John F Kennedy's driver on the day of his assassination 50 years ago, was an anti-Catholic Orange Order man

JFK’s Irish driver on the day of the assassination was a  secret member of the anti-Catholic Orange Order it has been revealed.

County Tyrone native William Greer has been cited in several conspiracy books for his alleged role and for not speeding away from the scene after the first shot.

Now conspiracy theorists have a new angle given his anti-Catholic background. Some researchers have claimed anti-Catholic elements were behind Kennedy’s killing. As the first Catholic president he had aroused tremendous opposition from some extreme Protestant leaders.

Greer’s Orange Order ties were revealed by the Unionist Belfast Newsletter newspaper on the 50th anniversary of the shooting.

As part of his initiation to the arch purple degree Greer would have sworn that he “should strenuously oppose the fatal errors and doctrines of the Church of Rome, and scrupulously avoid countenancing (by his presence or otherwise) any act or ceremony of Popish worship; he should, by all lawful means, resist the ascendancy of that Church, its encroachments, and the extension of its power.”

Greer had emigrated to the US at the age of 19 and joined the Navy and later the Secret Service. He had worked for both Truman and EIsenhower before taking over as Kennedy’s driver.

Drumbonaway, Tyrone Orange lodge secretary Edgar Kirkpatrick said he was shocked to see Greer’s name on their membership when asked to check by the News Letter.

“I have it all here in the lodge books. We have the records right the way to when the lodge was formed. We don’t have any Greers nowadays but I always remember my father talking about Richard Greer (Bill’s father) who was a servant man around here working for the farmers.

“But I didn’t know about his son at all until I read up in the books. There were a lot of people emigrating around that time and I notice from the lodge records that they were bought presents by the lodge – the man got a walking stick and the lady got an umbrella,” Kirkpatrick said.

“I couldn’t believe he’d come from here and went on to drive for Kennedy,” Mr Kirkpatrick added.
Greer has been sharply criticized for his actions that day in not immediately speeding up.

Kenneth O'Donnell (special assistant to Kennedy), who was riding in the motorcade, later wrote: "If the Secret Service men in the front had reacted quicker to the first two shots at the President's car, if the driver had stepped on the gas before instead of after the fatal third shot was fired, would President Kennedy be alive today?"

He also stated that after the death of the president  "Greer had been remorseful all day, feeling that he could have saved President Kennedy's life by swerving the car or speeding suddenly after the first shots."

After his father’s death from stomach cancer Greer’s only son Richard was asked by an American author: “What did your father think of JFK?”

He stated: “Well, we’re Methodists – and JFK was Catholic.”

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/JFKs-Irish-driver-in-Dallas-was-secret-member-of-anti-Catholic-Oran... 
Follow us: @IrishCentral 

[renomarvinm]

Let us lump some of the more common conspiracy theories together for a moment, and see what we have.  

The suspects are:

1.  The Mafia, for allowing Castro to take Cuba from them.  

2.  The Orangemen (see above) - I gotta admit, that's a new one on me.  Over here on this side of  the pond, the Catholic vs. Protestant thing is not as sensitive an issue as it seems to be in Great Britain & Ireland.

3.  The former USSR for making them lose face in the Cuban Missile Crisis. 

4.  LBJ.   No, I don't buy this one at all, but there IS a parody of Macbeth titled "MacBird" where LBJ plays the Macbeth part.  They had them in the book store when I was in college.  Guess who gets murdered?

5.  Jackie herself - for all the times he skipped out on her for sexual adventures which, if you believe the tabloids, was practically every night, with the secret service leading him through the sewers of Washington, headed for the lady who was connected with the mob, for a refreshing, ah how would we put this, co-educational exercise program.    Darn it!  Somebody should make a movie.

6.  Oswald.  Boring!  Let's go to the next one.

7.   Ultra-Right Wing Gun Freaks in Dallas - honestly, they're all armed, and they were all over the place.  Dan Rather, in his book, reported that after the shooting, local school children were cheering the event....  Terrifying, but not so boring.

8.  The American Polka Society, because he snubbed their invitation to attend a ho-down.  Do not laugh about this one, or you might receive an annymous phone call with someone playing Lawrence Welk music.  Buy ear plus!!

9.  And more.....

[cee-dee]

Aye, but theories are just thrown out with no substance.

It might be different if the proponents followed up with an in-depth modus operandi beginning with a solid motive and ending with sound reasoning as to how they got away with it by getting LHO all the blame and "keeping it all quiet" for so long.

[spawnjohnuk]

I like conspiricy 5 tbh, jackie, there is quite a lot of substance to that one via ''the family '' even today

[spawnjohnuk]

There is a conspiricy theory that turned out to be true cd.......

james was the mad button pusher of the nags head (wink wink) 🙂

[renomarvinm]

Maybe it was like the murder on the Orient Express - it was ALL of them.....

[saasher2012]

Or! None of em!!

[cee-dee]

I think this thread has taken a turn for the worse?

I see none of the conspiracy theorists ever want to argue their case in meticulous detail? They just want to come out with completely unsubstantiated conjecture and expect everyone to fall over themselves in agreement?

[spawnjohnuk]

maybe there arn't any conspiracy theorists here cd ?

The only scientific fact on this, is he was shot and murdered and the only person to know the reason why was shot and murdered

albeit denying the deed.

I would like the question answered ,what were the jfk security team thinking ? can;t be science proof now so that's the end of that 🙂

[spawnjohnuk]

same reason ossy shot jf, he wanted him dead I assume.

Difference is ossy didnt want to get caught ,ruby didn't give a rats 

[bankhaunter]

I heard a programme on Radio 4 which largely consisted of statements from those who were involved and the consensus was that as Oswald would not even admit he actually did the shooting let alone why, only saying the police would have to prove his guilt, then Ruby wiped out any chance of knowing just what his motive was.

Sometimes such crimes are committed simply for no other reason than the perpetrator wishes to attain notoriety.

[saasher2012]

The dilemma here as I see it & this is only my humble opinion, JFK asked for the car security bubble to be removed so that he could be seen more clearly. 1st bad move, the security guards were supposed to be riding on the back of said limo to protect his back , it can be seen quite clearly they were told to get off ,2nd bad move, their confusion after this order was given is clear to see you can also see JFK is aware of this going on. Conjecture . Did he also give this order? Conclusion, yes! For the same reason. 3rd bad move. Don't forget, our Royalty work on the same lines they want to be seen by all who have waited in all weathers to see them, they & only they have the last word, they are advised by security but they alone make the final decision.

[spawnjohnuk]

then all was bad decisions added to bad luck and timing ,jackie was in the car with him,you would think because of this alone the order to protect the limo would be paramount in jfk's mind (considering who he was and more to the point where he was) 

I was under the impression though that security for a US president did not rest on the presidents shoulders alone as they are the security and as such have a job to do regardless of wishes.

[saasher2012]

Yes you are right ,bad decisions all round, compounded by the fact as our American poster did say a red neck area. I cannot comment on the American security principles. Only as I said the Royal families. Perhaps our American poster can tell us.

[renomarvinm]

Hello again, everybody!  I'm not an expert on American presidential security procedures by any means, but I do have a few thoughts.  (By the way, Please. Please excuse my many typos - my right middle finger is broken, and it's in a metal splint, even as I attempt to type.  The only advantage of this is that I can make irreverent gestures, and people just assume it's my broken finger, but ever onward...)

First, back then in the 1960's, presidential security was obviously far more informal and free wheeling than it is today.  The implementation of vastly improved presidential security procedures was, no doubt, one of the unintended consequences of the Kennedy assasination.   JFK's security people should not have allowed him to do what he did.  That was one of their many flaws.

When George Bush senior was president, he visited the Boeing aircraft museum in Seattle, Washington, to give a speach.  We arrived at the museum several hours later after it was over, and heard the story.  The museum staff was still terrified!  The procedures (as far as the public was allowed to know them) went like this:  First, everybody arrived before the president.  And you had to be on the approved list.  Period!  And they really checked that list! They scanned it for months in advance.   A senior Boeing Vice President (of which there are many) decided he wanted to come.  Sorry - since he was not on the list. so they turned him away.    Finally, the President arrived.  How he got there, and when he got there were closely held secrets.  He gave his short speach and then left.  He left first.  How he left, and where he went were again secrets.  The people in attendance were held there for about two hours after he left before they were allowed to depart.  

Presidential and Federal Level VIP security had obviously improved.  These days those people are rarely seen in public except under tightly controlled situations.  They want to talk to the public - there's television.  I believe they're doing it right.

[saasher2012]

Hi there Bob , thanks for reply, sorry about your finger but I might try it as an excuse when next someone cuts me up on the road! I think the worlds personal security tightened up after the catalogue of disasters on that day, unfortunately we still are learning with each new tragic event. Sam.

[spawnjohnuk]

Well either JF thought he was invisible ,thought he was liked by everyone or thought flaunting a dare would prove something. (with jackie in the car the last one seems irresponsible)

I agree that things may well have changed security wise since (lessons learnt) but its quite popular (shooting presidents) in the states I believe so all in all you can say (no conspiracy) he almost brought it on himself.

On the conspiracy its as cd says you cannot find hard evidence that anything that happened wasn't as told,except of course ''was it plotted in advance''