03-12-2013 9:33 AM
Explain why you snatched baby girl at birth: Judge's order to social workers behind forced caesarean
Seeking answers: The judge who heads the family courts, Sir James Munby, has demanded to know why the girl should not be reunited with her mother
Social workers who made a mother give up her baby after a forced caesarean must explain themselves to Britain’s top family judge.
In a highly unusual intervention, Sir James Munby has demanded to know why the girl should not be reunited with her mother, a 35-year-old Italian.
Fabio Roia, the most senior judge in Milan, said the woman’s treatment by a secret court resembled a horror film – an unprecedented ‘act of extreme violence’ that could not have happened in Italy.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517144/Explain-snatched-baby-girl-birth-Judges-order-social...
03-12-2013 12:22 PM
An interesting article here.
03-12-2013 1:57 PM
@bankhaunter wrote:An interesting article here.
Good reading here..
03-12-2013 2:45 PM
03-12-2013 3:12 PM
Why is anybody else butting their noses into it?
If you were a pregnant woman with some sort of mental illness, wouldn't you be extremely concerned and want to know how such a decision was made?
It is very important that it can be seen the right judgement was arrived at and the process was not secret with those involved therefore being unaccountable, it's not as though for the woman it wasn't an extremely major, probably life changing event.
The Court of Protection has enormous power and it is vital that there is more openess, that doesn't necessarily mean that the identity of people it's dealing with need be revealed.
03-12-2013 3:25 PM
@blackburn_stevie wrote:
OK (Steps out from behind parapet) What is better for the baby? That has to be the first concern. We are not told how bad the woman's mental illness is. To put it bluntly, she could be anywhere between a person with Schizophrenia symptoms with multiple personalities and somebody with mild Depression.
So just imagine that you are the people looking after the mother's other 2 kids and that the mother is at the worse end of the scale shown above. You probably have a legal right to tell the doctors dealing with the baby's delivery how to proceed. They are probably the ones who gave the order for the caesarian delivery.
The next question is .....
Why is anybody else butting their noses into it?
Cheers,
Steve.
(Ducks back down)
At a county court hearing in Chelmsford in February this year Judge Roderick Newton heard the mother beg that she should not lose her child for ever.
The judge ruled the girl should be placed for adoption – even though he accepted that the mother was well, successfully taking medication and had a job.
He said the mother might stop taking her drugs and the family offers were ‘not a starter’.
Sir James Munby, who is the President of the Family Division of the High Court, ordered yesterday that further moves towards adoption must be heard before him in the High Court.
03-12-2013 3:40 PM
BH wrote ... It is very important that it can be seen the right judgement was arrived at
I ask ...I agree. Who says that it wasn't?
BH wrote ... If you were a pregnant woman with some sort of mental illness, wouldn't you be extremely concerned and want to know how such a decision was made?
I ask ... How do we even know if the mother-to-be was sufficiently compos mentis to understand the seriousness of her situation?
The problem with these news reports is that we only read what the reporters want us to read.
I fully agree that, where possible, everyone should be kept up to speed with what's going on but sometimes it can get out of hand.
03-12-2013 3:42 PM
The judge added that the mother before the court in February and the woman with the earlier mental episode were ‘almost like different people’.
Birmingham Yardley MP John Hemming is a long-standing campaigner against court secrecy, which he brands 'disgraceful'
However social workers told the court that they doubted whether the mother would continue to take medication and that she had lapsed in the past. They said the child should be adopted before the age of nine months.
Judge Newton said: ‘It is not a case where I can accede to the mother’s wishes even though I understand, not just the strength of feeling that she has, but it is rare to have it articulated in such a forceful and coherent form.’
The adoption is now likely to be challenged by lawyers.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516270/Please-dont-baby-Agony-mother-baby-girl-adoption-sec...
03-12-2013 4:00 PM
03-12-2013 4:17 PM
@blackburn_stevie wrote:
Don't you just hate it when posters lay a story out in front of you, get replies from people based on their post and then add more info to make repliers look dumb.
Lesson learned.
Sometimes the repliers are too lazy to read the full story.. before they comment.. Goodluck to the woman ,, I hope she wins her case..
03-12-2013 4:17 PM
03-12-2013 4:39 PM
@blackburn_stevie wrote:
Even Newspapers can't get their act together.
There is a report on Paul Walker's car crash in 2011 (I think)
Same reporter ..... Same news report .... spot the difference .... I quote ....
CCTV footage that reveals the precise moment that Paul Walker's Porsche Carrera GT careered into a tree
This photo was taken just minutes after Walker's car crashed into a pole
What has a car crash in 2011 got to do with this womans secert court story..
03-12-2013 5:59 PM - edited 03-12-2013 6:01 PM
@blackburn_stevie wrote:
Even Newspapers can't get their act together.
There is a report on Paul Walker's car crash in 2011 (I think)
Same reporter ..... Same news report .... spot the difference .... I quote ....
CCTV footage that reveals the precise moment that Paul Walker's Porsche Carrera GT careered into a tree
This photo was taken just minutes after Walker's car crashed into a pole.
Paul Walker crash captured on CCTV: Video of Porsche spinning off road emerges as friends claim actor was trying to FIX supercar
By JAMES NYE
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517257/Paul-Walker-crash-CCTV-Video-Porsche-GT-spinning-roa...
This Happened on Saturday ..2013 not 2011..
03-12-2013 6:16 PM
I ask ... How do we even know if the mother-to-be was sufficiently compos mentis to understand the seriousness of her situation?
We don't but neither do we know if the judge was fully briefed on the systems that exist to support mothers to be in that situation and what those who work in the field opinions were.
If a person's human rights can be denied to the degree that this woman's were, it is very important it should be subject to scrutiny
The problem with these news reports is that we only read what the reporters want us to read.
In the case of the Court of Protection we only know what they are prepared to let us know, that's the problem
03-12-2013 9:01 PM
@bankhaunter wrote:I ask ... How do we even know if the mother-to-be was sufficiently compos mentis to understand the seriousness of her situation?
We don't but neither do we know if the judge was fully briefed on the systems that exist to support mothers to be in that situation and what those who work in the field opinions were.
If a person's human rights can be denied to the degree that this woman's were, it is very important it should be subject to scrutiny
The problem with these news reports is that we only read what the reporters want us to read.
In the case of the Court of Protection we only know what they are prepared to let us know, that's the problem
UPDATE..
I want my daughter back': Italian mother's heartache at being ordered to have her baby adopted after being forced to have a Caesarean
UPDATED: 19:26 GMT, 3 December 2013
An Italian woman at the centre of row after being forced to have a Caesarean and then ordered to have her baby adopted has today broken her silence.
The 35-year-old, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, described her horrific ordeal in an interview with the Italian press.
Her daughter was taken into care by Essex County Council's social services team, who claimed it was responding to concerns over the health of the mother and her baby.
Today the woman, whose baby was put up for adoption by the council in October, claimed she had been misled.
The newborn was taken into state care on the orders of a judge in the notoriously secretive Court of Protection, despite the mother's pleas to be allowed to raise her. File picture
She said: 'I was sedated and deceived to give birth - that's how they took my daughter. I want my daughter back - I am suffering like an animal. They forced me to have a Caesarean without telling me anything.
'The day of the birth I thought they were just moving me from one room to another - I was telling them I wanted to go back to Italy. Then I was sedated. Then when I woke up she wasn't with me. They took her away from me.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517591/Italian-mother-forced-Caesarean-wants-daughter-back....
03-12-2013 9:08 PM
A terrible act of inhumanity that shows why justice must never be secret
Throughout all my years reporting on scores of chilling examples of what social workers are allowed to do behind the closed doors of our secret family courts, the case reported yesterday on the front page of the Daily Mail is not just the most disturbing of all.
It also illustrates how far our ‘child protection’ system has now gone horrendously off the rails. The facts are so shocking they beggar belief.
A pregnant Italian mother who was visiting Britain had her baby forcibly removed from her womb by British doctors on the orders of a secret court, before the child was handed to social workers.
This 35-year-old mother, who suffers from a bipolar condition, was visiting Britain for a two‑week training course with Ryanair at Stansted airport.
The newborn was taken into state care on the orders of a judge in the notoriously secretive Court of Protection, despite the mother's pleas to be allowed to raise her. File picture
Preparing to return home to Italy, having successfully passed the course, she had a bipolar episode at the airport and became over-excitable when she thought she had mislaid the passports of her two daughters who were still in Italy. She contacted the police for help.
When they arrived, she was on the phone to her mother, so she handed one of the officers the receiver. The mother explained to the police about her daughter’s mental condition and said she had not been taking the medication and needed to calm her down.
The police then apparently contacted Essex social workers — as they are routinely instructed to do in such cases — and told the woman they were taking her to ‘a hospital to check that your baby is OK’.
On arrival, she was startled to find that it was a psychiatric hospital.
She protested that she wanted to return to her hotel, but was forcibly restrained, sectioned under the Mental Health Act and told she must remain in the psychiatric hospital.
What happened next, however, was truly astounding.
Having been held there for five weeks, pleading many times to be given permission to return to Italy, she was told one morning that she would not be allowed breakfast.
Seeking answers: The judge who heads the family courts, Sir James Munby, has demanded to know why the girl should not be reunited with her mother
They would not explain why, and, again, she protested. She was then strapped down and drugged into a state of unconsciousness.
Waking up hours later, she found she was in a different hospital, and that while she had been unconscious, her baby had been removed by Caesarean section and handed over to social workers.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2517239/CHRISTOPHER-BOOKER-A-terrible-act-inhumanity-shows...
03-12-2013 10:39 PM
There was a discussion on Woman's hour this morning on the subject., it would appear that the help and care any women are likely to get is dependent on a postcode lottery.
Starts at 1.10
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03jznq7
One could wonder how far we have come since the days of young unmarried mothers with learning difficulties were condemned to spend their lives in a mental institution.
05-12-2013 11:45 AM
How the court ruled caesarean of Italian mother whose baby was snatched from the womb must be kept secret
PUBLISHED: 01:29 GMT, 5 December 2013 | UPDATED: 01:30 GMT, 5 December 2013
A secret court ruling in which a judge allowed doctors to sedate a pregnant woman to perform a caesarean without her consent was made public for the first time yesterday.
The extraordinary document shows how a judge approved an NHS trust’s plan.
A transcript of the hearing shows how Mr Justice Mostyn, who made the order, told the court: ‘She should not know about this order before she is taken and goes to hospital.’
The woman’s legally appointed representative replied: ‘My Lord, if it assists, it would be perfectly appropriate to include in the terms of the order that the substance of it shall not be communicated to the patient until after . . . the operation. If she disagrees with it she can apply afterwards to discharge it.’
Grief: Allesandra Pacchieri, who was forced to have her baby delivered by caesarean section and then removed from her by Essex social services
The judge replied: ‘Yes, that is right. So in those circumstances it is appropriate . . .’
He also authorised the use of ‘reasonable and proportionate force’ if needed.
Mr Justice Mostyn, sitting in the secretive Court of Protection, which makes decisions for incapacitated people, ruled the caesarean was in the woman’s best interests and that she was too mentally ill to make the decision herself.
But he said it would be ‘heavy-handed’ for police to take her baby at birth and suggested social workers should make a legal application to take the newborn into care instead.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518507/How-court-ruled-caesarean-Italian-mother-baby-snatch...
05-12-2013 11:47 AM
I could feel my baby kicking inside me. I was crying as I begged them not to cut me open: Mother whose baby was snatched from her womb by the State talks to the Mail
By SUE REID
Like any loving mother, Alessandra Pacchieri recalls every detail of her baby girl’s face, from her brown eyes to her sweet smile.
They are precious memories because in May she was made to say goodbye to her daughter.
After a cuddle, she watched grief-stricken as the nine-month-old toddler, in a red-spotted romper suit, was carried off by Essex social workers to be handed to new parents.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518417/Alessandra-Pacchieri--I-feel-baby-kicking-inside-I-c...
05-12-2013 2:38 PM
'Your mother loved you very much and wanted to keep you': Judge's remarkable message to baby girl of woman who was forced to have caesarean
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517944/Judge-Roderick-Newtons-remarkable-message-baby-girl....