Increased penalties for using a mobile phone whilst driving

[jd.linklater]

The government plans to increase penalty fines for driving while using a mobile phone from £100 to £150 and to increase the number of penalty points from three to four. Does anyone think this will make any difference to the number of offending drivers? The Department of Transport found that when the penalty was doubled from £50 to £100 in 2013 it made 'no discernable difference' to the number of offenders so why would a similar increase have any effect now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35141387

Personally my idea of a crackdown would be an immediate 12 month ban and £1000 fine for a first offence. What do others think?

[start-the-fire]

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@jd.linklater wrote:

The government plans to increase penalty fines for driving while using a mobile phone from £100 to £150 and to increase the number of penalty points from three to four. Does anyone think this will make any difference to the number of offending drivers? The Department of Transport found that when the penalty was doubled from £50 to £100 in 2013 it made 'no discernable difference' to the number of offenders so why would a similar increase have any effect now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35141387

Personally my idea of a crackdown would be an immediate 12 month ban and £1000 fine for a first offence. What do others think?

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Lol a little harsh i feel.

Have to admit i used to use very occasionally answer my phone to say id call them back, but was probably more alert and more attuned to surroundings and driving when i did.

Just leave it now as dont like hands free, and if its important theyll leave a message or if its going to be a while ill pull into a layby.

Tonight i followed what must have been a dd driver followed him on a b road into town, guess should have reported them but would probably bring more hassle than i need at the moment.

should be a means tested fine with a min 100.00 and 5 penalty points.

[soppysofty]

You can make as many laws as you like and increase/decrease fines, penalties etc. to your heart's content but.....

If there are no police available to enforce them what is the use?

If I had a pound for every motorist I see using a mobile while driving or other driving 'infringments' then I would not need to play the lottery.

If I had a pound for every police car/man I see on a daily basis I would be benefit dependant.

[bankhaunter]

Enforcement is definitely the key and not the size of the fine.

[******lynda******]

I also see lots of drivers, especially lorry drivers and police drivers using mobiles, though I have to say, the roads round here are crawling with police...often in unmarked cars, but then I do live beside a motorway. They pull cars over all the time.

[jd.linklater]

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@soppysofty wrote:

You can make as many laws as you like and increase/decrease fines, penalties etc. to your heart's content but.....

If there are no police available to enforce them what is the use?

If I had a pound for every motorist I see using a mobile while driving or other driving 'infringments' then I would not need to play the lottery.

If I had a pound for every police car/man I see on a daily basis I would be benefit dependant.

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I agree the law is practically unenforceable so what alternative is there to increased penalties other than making blue tooth devices compulsory? A blue tooth gadget is not expensive for any vehicle even if not fitted as standard. When I bought my last car from a Vauxhall dealership they installed a Parrot CK3100 for £125 fitted and ready to use. I cannot understand why people don't have them fitted as a matter of routine if the alternative is a fine of more than the cost of having one. I didn't use mine to make calls while driving but it enabled me to receive calls which I could answer with the push of one illuminated button on the dash. It was wired to the music system so the radio/CD player cut out as soon as a call was received, so you could hear and speak to the caller through the speaker system without any external interference. I can't think of a safer system for anyone who needs to keep in touch while on the move.  

[*.*..lola..*.*]

Personally my idea of a crackdown would be an immediate 12 month ban

...from owning or using a mobile phone LOL?

Your average smart phone addict would end up in rehab for 12 months till they got their phones back  

Actually that would be an excellent deterrant if it was remotely enforceable.

[bankhaunter]

I'm not sure the law is unenforceable, just not always actually enforced when it could be.

Umfortunately there are those who simply cannot resist using their phones no matter what situation they are in, I've seen people shooting a video to put on You Tube, pausing to check Facebook while they are actually shooting.

How about this woman who in the run up to hitting a cyclist, had made and received 44 texts during the previous few miles travelled.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@jd.linklater wrote:

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@soppysofty wrote:

You can make as many laws as you like and increase/decrease fines, penalties etc. to your heart's content but.....

If there are no police available to enforce them what is the use?

If I had a pound for every motorist I see using a mobile while driving or other driving 'infringments' then I would not need to play the lottery.

If I had a pound for every police car/man I see on a daily basis I would be benefit dependant.

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I agree the law is practically unenforceable so what alternative is there to increased penalties other than making blue tooth devices compulsory? A blue tooth gadget is not expensive for any vehicle even if not fitted as standard. When I bought my last car from a Vauxhall dealership they installed a Parrot CK3100 for £125 fitted and ready to use. I cannot understand why people don't have them fitted as a matter of routine if the alternative is a fine of more than the cost of having one. I didn't use mine to make calls while driving but it enabled me to receive calls which I could answer with the push of one illuminated button on the dash. It was wired to the music system so the radio/CD player cut out as soon as a call was received, so you could hear and speak to the caller through the speaker system without any external interference. I can't think of a safer system for anyone who needs to keep in touch while on the move.  

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Better in my opinion to ban the use of mobile phones, hand held or hands free, whilst driving.

It is not the holding of a phone to the ear that is the danger but the conversation itself that distracts.

[cee-dee]

If it's the conversation that distracts then you'd have to ban talking to passengers as well?

Where's it gonna end? Ban listening to the radio as well?

[suzieseaside]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Better in my opinion to ban the use of mobile phones, hand held or hands free, whilst driving.

It is not the holding of a phone to the ear that is the danger but the conversation itself that distracts.

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So how would taxi drivers in particular, and delivery people go about their jobs?

As cee dee says how is a hands free conversation different from talking to passengers?  I think the biggest danger of mobile phone use while driving is taking your eyes off the road to look at the screen or keyboard.

[jd.linklater]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

 

Better in my opinion to ban the use of mobile phones, hand held or hands free, whilst driving.

It is not the holding of a phone to the ear that is the danger but the conversation itself that distracts.

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I don't agree, if you're holding a phone to your ear you're doubly distracted. You haven't got two hands on the wheel and you could be blocking your own field of view. You aren't hindered in either of those ways by using bluetooth.

[suzieseaside]

As soppy said, there needs to be more enforcement for some people to take notice.  Maybe a hard-hitting public information broadcast on TV like the drink-driving Xmas ads might help?

I gather that people have also been fined for eating a sandwich when driving.  If that is considered dangerous - something you can actually do without taking your eyes of the road, assuming the sandwich is conveniently placed and you have some sort of hand to mouth co-ordination - where will it end? Will it be illegal to eat a sweet?

If so, then it makes no sense to allow people to change CDs or radio channels since they probably have to look away from the road to do it, or to change the heating switch for airflow direction.   

Sneezing is potentially dangerous, a considerable distance can be covered during the pre-sneeze, sneeze and recovery period.  Should people with hayfever, allergies and colds be banned from driving while they are suffering?

Yes, I know that's ridiculous, but lets see some common sense about what we are allowed to do while driving. 

Certainly I think there needs to be more enforcement and education about using mobile phones which is clearly dangerous, and proven to be so, before adding other activities which may not be dangerous and haven't been shown to cause accidents. 

[cee-dee]

Of course, under the UTCYA regulations, Sat-Navs would have to be banned completely as the "conversational instructions" are distracting?

[joe_bloggs*]

I think all these motoring offences could all be dealt with under the old "driving without due care & attention" law

"Driving without due care and attention carries a penalty of either a disqualification, or between 3 and 9 points. You can also be faced with a fine up to £2,500 depending on the nature of the incident"

http://www.ringroselaw.co.uk/personal-law/criminal-defence/motoring-offences/driving-without-due-car...

and as regards fines,i think they are already means tested as a defendant has to fill out a statement of means form,I,m sure a lot of these new laws are just to show that the government is doing something,a lot of offences could be dealt with under existing laws and at the discretion of the copper.

From the RAC:

“We have already highlighted the large reductions in the numbers of full-time roads policing officers affecting many police forces. On average across the country there was a 23% cut between 2010 and 2014 – meaning there are 1,279 fe.... Sadly, therefore, there are now far fewer police to enforce a law that is designed to protect all road users and pedestrians"

http://www.rac.co.uk/press-centre#/pressreleases/prosecutions-for-motorists-using-a-mobile-phone-at-...

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Of course, under the UTCYA regulations, Sat-Navs would have to be banned completely as the "conversational instructions" are distracting?

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No - you are totally ignoring all the research that shows telephone conversations are a major distraction.

Of course RoSPA don't know what they are talking about!

A substantial body of research shows that using a hand-held or hands-free mobile phone while driving is a significant distraction, and substantially increases the risk of the driver crashing.

Drivers who use a mobile phone, whether hand-held or hands-free:

• are much less aware of what's happening on the road around them
• fail to see road signs
• fail to maintain proper lane position and steady speed
• are more likely to 'tailgate' the vehicle in front
• react more slowly, take longer to brake and longer to stop
• are more likely to enter unsafe gaps in traffic
• feel more stressed and frustrated.

They are also four times more likely to crash, injuring or killing themselves and other people.

Using a hands-free phone while driving does not significantly reduce the risks because the problems are caused mainly by the mental distraction and divided attention of taking part in a phone conversation at the same time as driving.

http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/distraction/mobile-phones/

[suzieseaside]

I'm not suggesting that what you are saying about hands-free use is not true, although I haven't seen any statistics about what proportion of accidents hand-free phone use is determined as the cause compared with the many causes of RTAs. 

Since conversations apparently are a cognitive distraction, then I would imagine that conversations with a passenger, kids in the back etc. would also produce the same distraction; even more so for those really scary drivers who look at their passengers while talking to them.  

Also perhaps even listening to a radio play - maybe some people's minds wander.   Some people don't concentrate enough when they are doing none of these things.

I wonder what proportion of accidents are caused by drivers talking in a car.  Not that we would ever know.

I suppose my point is that yes, we need to do what we can to lessen road traffic accidents, but laws need to be made in proportion to the risks.  Until I see evidence for myself that hands-free phone use is more dangerous than talking or listening to the radio, or using a sat nav, I'm not convinced that hands-free needs to be banned.  I imagine that for some people the technology is very helpful in their work

Just my opinion, I don't use a phone in my car, I don't have a hands-free kit, and I don't use a sat nav.

All might be irrelevant if and when we have driverless cars, but I expect they will throw up some problems.

[upthecreekyetagain]

All the research I've seen shows that it is the conversation itself that is distracting and not the physical act of holding the phone - the equivalent of driving whilst over the drink drive limit!

This is an interesting article.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/chatty-driving-phones-vs-passengers/?_r=0

"Nearly every driver riding with a passenger completed the task – sometimes the passenger alerted the driver to the approaching rest stop. But half of the cell phone chatterers missed the exit, according to the study, published in The Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied. “They drove right past the exit without even stopping or noticing,’’ Dr. Strayer said."

[suzieseaside]

Yes, that is interesting.  Thanks for that link. 

[upthecreekyetagain]

I've been reading a number of 'research' articles following this thread and not one of them even suggests that hands free usage is significantly safer than hand held.

A number have confirmed that talking with passengers, especially the 'screaming kids in the back seat' scenario can be equally distracting! - the problem is that legislating against such an activity is impossible and comes down to individual driver responsibility.

Hand held phone usage can be enforced, more difficult with hands free, impossible person to person!