Herd Immunity?

[cee-dee]

This morning I saw part of a discussion on the BBC news channel about herd immunity between two "experts", one a proponent of herd immunity and the other a detractor.

I understand we can develop some sort of an immunity to some diseases but others can only be defeated by vaccination and/or the complete eradication of the disease.

The Flu vaccine for instance only works against some "varieties" of it which is why we need a jab every year but if a different "variety" just happens to spread, the jab will be ineffective and I wonder if that will turn out to be the same with covid-19?

So, if covid-19 continues to evolve, will we need constant jabs to counteract each new version?

Remember the BCG jab? Didn't we have some sort of test beforehand and if you didn't react, you had the jab, if you had a reaction you didn't get a jab? Those that reacted already had "herd immunity" of some sort?

So, what's your take on "herd immunity" around covid-19?

[1956glyn]

I do not think it would work.   Only around 10% of the population have had Covid and for herd immunity to work one needs about 70% of the population to be infected.     The death toll would probably be catastrophic 😞   Plus one can get infected more than once so regular annual vaccination etc would prob be required. 

I do not think it will be eradicated until we have a vaccine. 

[astrologica]

It will go away when this government wants it to go away. Look at the bigger picture...world events etc. It doesn't matter what we do...the result will be the same. The numbers are being inflated, both positive cases and deaths. We haven't seen anything yet. Wait till next year.

[dark_castle1]

I agree with glyn, I think it will take a vaccine to afford some sort of immunity and likely an ongoing dose each year at least.

As for herd immunity which would be catastrophic in mortality rates I obviously disagree and what no one knows is what the lasting effects may be, in later life all the younger generation who seem to think it is going to affect them like a mild flu or not at all have no idea if the long term effects are going to cause breathing difficultys or what in later life and when they reach maybe mid 50s or 60 if they will become invalids or as they seem to see us of the older generation a burden on society but for them at a much younger age.

[cee-dee]

So much for "immunity" after having had covid-19?:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54512034

[astrologica]

A question for anyone who reads this thread....do YOU know anyone who is flouting the rules regarding the virus? And I don't mean that you should be snitching....it would be interesting to see how much of the population are abiding by the rules.

[cee-dee]

Rules? Rules? What rules? 

[1956glyn]

Yes .....3 of my immediate neighbours

We are in the High tier.    One neighbour is still having their childrens friends  and parents round plus grandparents etc 

Another neighbour is a family of 5 and still having his other daughter, son in law and their 2 children round plus his brother plus his childrens boyfriends and girlfriends plus the odd workman.

Another neighbour is renovating his home......every day at least 4 different work people are calling....no masks nothing.   They are a family of  6 .

These 3 neighbours to be honest have never adhered to any guidelines let alone any laws. 

[1956glyn]

It is rather frustrating when my own family stick strictly to all the rules.

I go out once a week  food shopping.

Hubby goes to work (they are hot on keeping to all Covid guidelines).  He works mostly on his own in his separate office so thats good. 

Son goes to work and he and his employer are megga hot on keeping to all guidelines. 

[astrologica]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I have extended family members who interpret the rules to suit themselves. It seems as if the whole country is looking for ways to get around them. 😫😫

[cee-dee]

On the subject of "rules", did you see the pics of all those people out on the streets of Liverpool? Rules? What rules?

I see "the opposition" saying "the Government" should have done this, that or the other? If they had done what the opposition say they should have done, they'd have said the government should have done what they've done now?

No matter what is done, those who just want to opose for opposing sake will say they should have done something else.

[lambsy_uk]

I stopped following rules in June and I encourage all others to do the same!

[1956glyn]

IF that comment is serious....why?   and why in June? 

[lambsy_uk]

You may recall that June was when the original 10 week complete lockdown lifted and people started going back to work although with the proviso to work from home if possible. So this is when I started getting back to work and having spent ten weeks actively avoiding people, like crossing to the other side of the road in passing, I decided I wasn’t doing it anymore. People can avoid me if they wish, they can give me a wide birth or do as they see fit but I’d done ten weeks of active social distancing and that was enough. That doesn’t mean I seek to get close to people but I also don’t seek to keep away, I act as normal and leave it to others to act as they see fit. I don’t wear a mask and considering any piece of cloth or clothing can be regarded as a mask it shows how ridiculous the suggestion is from the start. There are exemptions from mask wearing proclamations and we don’t have to prove exemption and people have no business enquiring about why someone does not where a mask and therefore the reason I don’t wear a mask is no your business nor that of anyone else! I’ve not found it a problem because most people are respectful enough not to be so rude as to ask. I encourage others to do the same because I believe our government’s reaction to the situation has been ridiculous and unnecessarily draconian, knowing I’m not the only person who feels that way I suggest they stop whining, arm themselves with some knowledge about the restrictions and take some direct action!

[1956glyn]

Thats fine and i respect your opinion BUT the directions are that we do wear masks and you may be symptomatic 😞

Sorry but the only direction you appear to be taking is putting others at a higher unnecessary risk.

For the record my son is Asthmatic and still fairly young and he does all he can to wear a mask....not for his own health but for the health of others. 

[1956glyn]

Without wishing to pry may i ask what part of the country you live in.....or what tier you are currently in ?

Personally i think others have every right to POLITELY ask why someone is not wearing a mask, say in a supermarket,  if they feel that their own health and the health of others (especially if they are older) may be at risk.   People with underlying heath problems may have to still go out for shopping etc.

[lambsy_uk]

To be able to lecture me on the mask wearing directions you’d need to show knowledge of them and you appear to lack such knowledge. I’ve read the directions on the government website and I know I know what I’m talking about. You look after yourself and kin and I’ll do the same, I expect no one to take special measures for me sake and you can expect the same from me. You know little or nothing about my life and how much or little contact I have with others and therefore have no idea about what risk I may be exposing others to. Just accept that although I don’t actively avoid people I also don’t seek to invade their space which is pretty much how people lived before all this anyway. Merry Christmas.

[1956glyn]

i am not lecturing you but going on what you are typing you appear to be taking a very selfish attitude and wondered why.  It is called having a conversation. 

Touche you also know absolutely nothing about me.

Merry Christmas 

[lambsy_uk]

I know you don’t appear to know the directions regarding masks.

[lambsy_uk]

I live in the Midlands and have no idea what tier it’s in, particularly as I’m returning home from holiday and haven’t been taking notice of the recent changes, not that I took that much notice before I left. No need to take notice: either the pubs are open or they are not, you have a few people at a football match or you don’t, if I see the pubs are closed I’ll guess I’m in a higher tier than some, if they are open I guess the tier has lowered. Actually although you may have the right to ask someone why they are not wearing a mask you have no right whatsoever to expect an answer other than “feck off and mind your own business”. No one has to provide proof of exemption nor discuss why they may be exempt. If you feel your health may be at risk I’d suggest rather than ask why I’m not wearing a mask it would be better for you to stay well away and I’ll happily stay well away from you, sorted!