Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

[merehazle]

The Clacton MP's decision to join Nigel Farage is like the rest of his career, principled and decent writes Peter Oborne - Daily Telegraph's chief political commentator.

Well it certainly makes for some exitement at last...as the Tory whips scramble to secure party against further departures after the Eurosceptic MP triggers Clacton  byelection. 

And he is honourable and decent enough to deflect on principle.

Eight Tory MP's are reported to be talking to Ukip about deflection?  (we will see) .....

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@merehazle wrote:

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Oh, has he gone with his Niemoller???

Wow even MORONS. There's nothing like insulting millions of people.  And just look at what he said: manmad:  Perhaps Mr Creeky #3 we should VOTE on whether that is acceptable? yes, or no, will do. Try it just for once.

Well said EVO #10 with 3 kudos  

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No it's not acceptable.

Nor would I vote against gay rights or same sex marriages nor against raising welfare benefits nor specifically against extra benefits for the disabled.  I wouldn't vote either for the retention of mass personal information by the government.

I wouldn't vote for replacing Trident with another nuclear option, raising rail fares nor selling off Britain's forests.  I wouldn't have voted in favour of privatising the Royal Mail, restricting legal aid nor the introduction of student loans.

It seems however that many are unable to look beyond the UKIP label and see what those representing that party actually stand for.

[bookhunter2007]

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upthecreekyetagain wrote

   It seems however that many are unable to look beyond the UKIP label and see what those representing that party actually stand for.

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A significant proportion of the Kipperati are conditioned to kneejerk to Daily Afraid-driven cultural anxieties over and above actual policy. Thus, representing ukip is more to do with representing a cult(ure?), rather than any clear policy beyond UK leaving the EU. Economically, da maffs dunt ad up guv.  This Ashcroft Poll nails it imo (myths listed debunked via hyperlink).

"In fact, in the mix of things that attract voters to UKIP, policies are secondary. It is much more to do with outlook. Certainly, those who are attracted to UKIP are more preoccupied than most with immigration, and will occasionally complain about Britain’s contribution to the EU or the international aid budget. But these are often part of a greater dissatisfaction with the way they see things going in Britain: schools, they say, can’t hold nativity plays or harvest festivals any more; you can’t fly a flag of St George any more; you can’t call Christmas Christmas any more; you won’t be promoted in the police force unless you’re from a minority; you can’t wear an England shirt on the bus; you won’t get social housing unless you’re an immigrant; you can’t speak up about these things because you’ll be called a racist; you can’t even smack your children."

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2012/12/the-ukip-threat-is-not-about-europe/

And check out this humdinger:

"almost five times as many UKIP voters were inclined to think the MMR jab (for mumps, measles and rubella) was unsafe (28% versus 6% for all adults), and a staggering 13% thought it was downright dangerous; a view not shared by any measurable proportion of voters for other parties."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2014/05/2015-election

As I pointed out earlier, "fear, paranoia, tabloid headlines, and conspiracy theories."

UKIP claim to be representative of "libertarian" values, so if you really want to knock yourself out, some of the suggestions in their mysteriously deleted and rather authoritarian "Restoring Britishness" document reads in places like something Anders Breivik penned - 5.3, 12.4, and 12.9 are beyond parody.  Can see why it'd go down well in Clacton tho'.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Doubtless there are some UKIP voters who do support the full gamut of their policies - unfortunately I suspect the vast majority aren't even aware of UKIP's policies apart from those on the EU and immigration.

[papko]

Sounds my kind of chap Douglas Carswell 

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@papko wrote:

Sounds my kind of chap Douglas Carswell 

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It's  not a matter of what is right or wrong with Carswell's beliefs nor the policies of UKIP but that so many will blindly vote for him or UKIP in total ignorance of their overall intents, blinded by just two policies over the EU and immigration.

If UKIP ever did gain power then many of those voters would be in for a massive shock!

[merehazle]

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@merehazle wrote:

The Clacton MP's decision to join Nigel Farage is like the rest of his career, principled and decent writes Peter Oborne - Daily Telegraph's chief political commentator.

Well it certainly makes for some exitement at last...as the Tory whips scramble to secure party against further departures after the Eurosceptic MP triggers Clacton  byelection. 

And he is honourable and decent enough to deflect on principle.

Eight Tory MP's are reported to be talking to Ukip about deflection?  (we will see) .....

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And we are seeing as another one is leaving for UKIP .

Tory MP Mark Reckless (good name) said he is leaving his party to join UKIP on the eve of the Conservatives' conference.

[0125arwen]

Ukip, coming soon to a town near you.

[merehazle]

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@0125arwen wrote:

Ukip, coming soon to a town near you.

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Yes

Seems the Tories aren't going to have to wait till the election to lose, they are losing already.

Well this should and will IMO give some others the confidence to do the same.

Oh dear if only they had listened to the people?

Good night.   

[upthecreekyetagain]

Ironic that the more votes and/or seats UKIP manage to squeeze from the Conservatives the more likely it is that we will have a Labour government come next May - the party not offering a referendum on the EU

[merehazle]

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@sir_arthur_strebe-grebling wrote:

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@al**bear wrote:

Carswell co wrote a book about dismantlying the NHS - so will be well at  home inside UKIP

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Wrong again, Al. The book by Carswell and Hannan (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Plan-Twelve-months-Britain/dp/0955979900) is not about the NHS. It argues for individuals to have more power and responsibility over their own lives instead of the state running everything. It's no surprise that Labour doesn't like that as they want to dictate what happens to us, including their Nationalised Death Service ... Stafford, Furness, Tameside, Basildon, etc ... all killing patients because the hospitals are run for the benefit of the staff rather than patients.

Just like Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby, Oxford, etc where the Labour councils are run for their own benefit and they don't care that thousands of girls are being drugged and raped.

Yes...well your right.  But I tried your link and it does not work? Well it says: '' We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site. But never mind.

Perhaps some should read #9 again.   And wonder how he gets away with it ?  Time and time again.  

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[merehazle]

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@merehazle wrote:

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@sir_arthur_strebe-grebling wrote:

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@al**bear wrote:

Carswell co wrote a book about dismantlying the NHS - so will be well at  home inside UKIP

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Wrong again, Al. The book by Carswell and Hannan (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Plan-Twelve-months-Britain/dp/0955979900) is not about the NHS. It argues for individuals to have more power and responsibility over their own lives instead of the state running everything. It's no surprise that Labour doesn't like that as they want to dictate what happens to us, including their Nationalised Death Service ... Stafford, Furness, Tameside, Basildon, etc ... all killing patients because the hospitals are run for the benefit of the staff rather than patients.

Just like Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby, Oxford, etc where the Labour councils are run for their own benefit and they don't care that thousands of girls are being drugged and raped.

Yes...well your right.  But I tried your link and it does not work? Well it says: '' We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site. But never mind.

Perhaps some should read #9 again.   And wonder how he gets away with it ?  Time and time again.  

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 Well... when I wrote this about his #9 a short while ago these words were there:

''If anything, It would seem UKIP  are the ones who predominantly  appeal to those who are white, or older, and not particulaly well-educated. Or more specifically, morons  who  swallow Daily Afraid headlines hook. line & sinker. The evidence is somewhere. And others should remember it. His answer was to evoman.

They are not there now.  WHY???   Can we all remove what we say at ANYTIME?   Or is it just for ONE.  And how was it done? 

[bookhunter2007]

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@merehazle wrote:

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They are not there now.  WHY???   Can we all remove what we say at ANYTIME?   Or is it just for ONE.  And how was it done? 

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Via button pushing. 

I'm assuming one of those sweet, thoughtful, "well-educated" and definitely "not racist" UKIP supporters took "offense" at the post in question.

[i-am-legion-too]

Caught bang to rights!

[merehazle]

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@bookhunter2007 wrote:

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@merehazle wrote:

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They are not there now.  WHY???   Can we all remove what we say at ANYTIME?   Or is it just for ONE.  And how was it done? 

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Via button pushing. 

I'm assuming one of those sweet, thoughtful, "well-educated" and definitely "not racist" UKIP supporters took "offense" at the post in question.

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There's nothing like assumptions?  There is also nothing like the FACTS.  Half of it was removed. The part that just might suggest the TRUTH.  They did not press the button when YOU first put it up. And why should they when the attention is being brought to them about it now??? At least try, try, try to be realistic.   (some of the people ALL of the time maybe).

And would THEY do it to make MY response look senseless? Get real for once. And try some WISDOM with your ruddy education.

If we cant argue in response with the TRUTH what the hell good is it on here?  I leave this thread to YOU now as I know what's coming. I hope that's reasonable moderator. 

[bookhunter2007]

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merehazle wrote

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And would THEY do it to make MY response look senseless?

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How dare they.

I shouldn't worry hun, everyone here knows what a calm, reasonable, articulate, informed, and tolerant chap you are.

[bookhunter2007]

[upthecreekyetagain]

[papko]

Good shock will do people good 

 The country is needing a good jolt , we should of had it with the bank collpase in 2008 , yet we baled them and everyone else out , and numbed the pain of the downturn .

 And we stagger on , with an economy mired in personal debt , and over inflated property prices , full of zombie companies , propped up by zombie Govts .

 Who can only seem to agree on bombing the Middle East 

let Farage and his ilk  , cry HAVOC , and let slip the dogs...........;-)

 they will hold the balance of power .

 Thats all they want to do  , (or should do ) the threat is greater than the execution , dont get involved in Govt at all ,. just ofrced through the referendum (which I think they will loose ) 

[upthecreekyetagain]

Papko

I probably agree with more of UKIP's policies than most of those who actually vote for them - despite this however all I ever hear from their supporters are UKIP's policies on immigration and the EU.

The sooner we have a referendum on the EU the better, so that once and for all any idea of leaving can be put to bed for at least the next 25 years.   A referendum in favour of staying in Europe will be the death knell for Farage and his party.

The majority of recent polls indicate that any referendum would be in favour of staying in the EU - if I were David Cameron I'd be very tempted to hold a snap referendum on the subject before the election in May.

[cee-dee]

LATEST:

Former deputy mayor of London Richard Barnes leaves the Conservatives to join UKIP.

It'll all end up like the SDs and the Gang of Four.