Corona virus is more evidence.

[the-blue-rose]

The corona virus is evidence we are deep into "the last days"

The Bible’s answer
The Bible describes events and conditions that would mark “the conclusion of the [current] system of things,” or “the end of the world.” (Matthew 24:3; King James Version) The Bible calls this time period “the last days” and the “time of the end,” or “end times.” (2 Timothy 3:1; Daniel 8:​19; Easy-to-Read Version) The following are some outstanding features of last-days, or end-times, prophecies:
War on a large scale.​—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:4.
Famine.​—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:​5, 6.
Great earthquakes.​—Luke 21:11.
Pestilences, or epidemics of “terrible diseases.”​—Luke 21:11, Contemporary English Version.
Increase of crime.​—Matthew 24:12.
Ruining of the earth by mankind.​—Revelation 11:18.
Deterioration of people’s attitudes, as shown by many who are “unthankful, disloyal, . . . not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride.”​—2 Timothy 3:​1-4.
Breakdown of the family, with people who have “no natural affection” and children who are “disobedient to parents.”​—2 Timothy 3:​2, 3.
Love of God growing cold in most people.​—Matthew 24:12.
Noteworthy displays of religious hypocrisy.​—2 Timothy 3:5.
Increased understanding of Bible prophecies, including those related to the last days.​—Daniel 12:4.
Global preaching of the good news of the Kingdom.​—Matthew 24:14.
Widespread apathy and even ridicule toward the evidence of the approaching end.​—Matthew 24:37-​39; 2 Peter 3:​3, 4.
The simultaneous fulfillment of all these prophecies, not just a few or even most of them.​—Matthew 24:33.

Are we living in “the last days”?

Yes. World conditions as well as Bible chronology indicate that the last days began in 1914. At that time, God’s Kingdom began ruling in heaven, and one of its first actions was to expel Satan the Devil and the demons from heaven and restrict their activity to the earth. (Revelation 12:​7-​12) Satan’s influence on mankind can be seen in many of the bad attitudes and actions that make the last days “critical times hard to deal with.”​—2 Timothy 3:1.

We ar living in the times of the four horseman.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no3-2017-may/who-are-the-four-horsemen/

[astrologica]

I would like to know what you have to do to be one of the 144,000 anointed. What is the difference between an anointed one and the ordinary 'sheep' in the flock. Have the 144,000 places already been allotted? And what do you mean when you refer to someone as your 'sister'?

[upthecreekyetagain]

The thing is that it really doesn't matter what examples of propecies are given, sceptics, (such as myself, and I expect you), are never going to accept them.

When it comes to the JW, any other 'church' or organisation for that matter, what I look for is whether overall they are a force for good or not.

Most religious groups from Catholicism to Islam not only support their own members but also encourage their members to carry out charitable works irrespective of the beliefs of the recipients.  Not so apparently the JW's!

https://jwsurvey.org/charity-commission/news-bulletin-will-jehovahs-witnesses-provide-charity-for-no...

Members of JW are actively discouraged from giving to charities and when it comes to charitable acts by JW's themselves, well this quote says it all:-

Watchtower 2017 May p.7
"Like the neighborly Samaritan in Jesus’ illustration, we want to help suffering people, including those who are not Witnesses. (Luke 10:33-37) The best way to do so is by sharing the good news with them. “It is important to make clear right away that we are Jehovah’s Witnesses and that our primary mission is to help them spiritually, not materially,” notes an elder who has helped many refugees. “Otherwise, some may associate with us only for personal advantage.”"

My message to people of whatever persuasion is don't preach to me but demonstrate by your actions not just love for some "higher authority" but also your love for your fellow man.

[the-blue-rose]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

As there is a lot of evidence that the Gospels were written after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans I'm not sure that is a particularly good example - doesn't matter though because you are spoilt for choice - so what are you going to offer?

Maybe one that justifies ignoring the cries of children for help?

---

In my opinion I feel it's a perfectly sound example, bankhaunter asked for real and the fact there is other material and a historical monument to add makes it so.

When the Gospels were written is irrelevant, they were factual and accurate accounts of many things that happened and of Gods people etc like the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah.

The more important thing is you have to believe the Bible to be the word of God, you gave to believe there is a God and he is the creator to believe in anything given as answers.

The fact that you and all others here do not believe in God makes it obvious any answers to your questions won't be acceptable.

That doesn't mean that whatever you contribute on a thread like this means nothing. It just proves what the bible states about Satan being in control of anyone who doesn't acknowledge our Grand Creator and his Sovereinty. Satan is misleading mankind.

We are all imperfect, just because we don't see God dealing with matters in the way we feel he should be, doesn't mean is doing nothing.

[the-blue-rose]

---

@bankhaunter wrote:

I think I said REAL prophesies, not ones written after the event, nor ones amde that could well come true if you wait long enough.

I could prophesy a president on the US will die in an aeroplane crash.

If it eventually happens, was that a proper prophecy?

The scripture I quoted, was it said to 144,000 people?

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

So you claim that interpretation by JWs is the correct one.  Based on what exactly.

Give me empirical evidence that Russel and Rutherford were telling the truth.

The BITE model is used to see if an organisation is a cult, the Jehovah's Witnesses qualify.

https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-and-jehovahs-witnesses/

---

I  think my previous post to creaky is a good enough answer to the above.

[the-blue-rose]

I would like to know what you have to do to be one of the 144,000 anointed. What is the difference between an anointed one and the ordinary 'sheep' in the flock. Have the 144,000 places already been allotted?

Why?

And what do you mean when you refer to someone as your 'sister'?

Sorry 🙂 sister means a spiritual sister, all are a member of a unified spiritual family hence brothers and sisters.

[the-blue-rose]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

The thing is that it really doesn't matter what examples of propecies are given, sceptics, (such as myself, and I expect you), are never going to accept them.

When it comes to the JW, any other 'church' or organisation for that matter, what I look for is whether overall they are a force for good or not.

Most religious groups from Catholicism to Islam not only support their own members but also encourage their members to carry out charitable works irrespective of the beliefs of the recipients.  Not so apparently the JW's!

https://jwsurvey.org/charity-commission/news-bulletin-will-jehovahs-witnesses-provide-charity-for-no...

Members of JW are actively discouraged from giving to charities and when it comes to charitable acts by JW's themselves, well this quote says it all:-

Watchtower 2017 May p.7
"Like the neighborly Samaritan in Jesus’ illustration, we want to help suffering people, including those who are not Witnesses. (Luke 10:33-37) The best way to do so is by sharing the good news with them. “It is important to make clear right away that we are Jehovah’s Witnesses and that our primary mission is to help them spiritually, not materially,” notes an elder who has helped many refugees. “Otherwise, some may associate with us only for personal advantage.”"

My message to people of whatever persuasion is don't preach to me but demonstrate by your actions not just love for some "higher authority" but also your love for your fellow man.

---

It is very obvious upthecreekyetagain that you do not know JW's as well as you think you do.🙂 

You need to read the the whole article of that watchtower, as the small piece you have posted is not giving the true meaning of the article.

Just because charities may not be donated to doesn't mean that Jehovahs Witnesses offer help and support in many other ways.

What help is given isn't broadcast in a blow your own trumpet kind of way either. 

Why would a command like  "Love your neighbour as yourself" be an important part of the ministry if we were not meant to follow it ourselves.

Again you use anything you can against the faith, another example of plaing into Satans hands because if you are not for God you are against. Just fullfilling prophesy. 🙂.

There is so much more to being a true Christian than giving material help.

Many charities live by the thought give a man a loaf he can feed himself for a day, give a man the tools he can feed his family for a lie time.

God takes care of us by teaching us to benefit ourselves for an eternal lifetime. He teaches us how to teach others to do the same.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Again you are preaching at me.

I'm talking about charity of a practical kind, given irrespective of the beliefs recipients may or may not hold.

I can't find many, in fact I can't find any, examples of physical, practical aid given to non JWs and yet the Watchtower claim charitable status in countries across the world - thankfully many countries are looking at this including the UK.  Far more in terms of tax exemptions is given to the JWs than they ever spend helping so called non-believers.

I wonder if members of the JWs really do know more about the cult they are members of than those on the outside looking in and who have contact with ex-members.

[astrologica]

'Why'...that is not an answer. It Is ducking the question. 

[0125arwen]

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@astrologica wrote:

'Why'...that is not an answer. It Is ducking the question. 

---

All religions are cults, but if i had to say which one causes least harm and actually helps the community i would say it is far and away the JW.

[upthecreekyetagain]

In what way do the JWs "help the community"?

I know of no examples.

[bankhaunter]

Dodging the question and reiterating previous claims, is neither answering questions or showing actual evidence.

Just because you assert something is true, such as the Gospels being factual and accurate accounts, ignoring the fact that in some ways, they differ significantly from each other, does not make them true.

How did the writers know what happened when Jesus was alone? Did they just make it up?

As has been said, assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

"Like the neighborly Samaritan in Jesus’ illustration, we want to help suffering people, including those who are not Witnesses.

Unless of course they are family members who are being shunned or those being sexually abused, they can suffer, they don't matter.

Ever noticed how JWs so friendly at first, drop you like a hot brick once they realise you are not interested in joining their cult, their smiles are as false as that of the crocodile.

[upthecreekyetagain]

"Like the neighborly Samaritan in Jesus’ illustration, we want to help suffering people, including those who are not Witnesses."

That really is one classic example of how JWs pervert the stories in the Bible!

The parable of the Good Samaritan is a very simple story exemplifying good neighbourliness and charity.  Samaritans detested Jews yet whilst a Jew and a priest passed by the wounded fellow Jew the Samaritan stopped, bound his wounds, fed him and paid for his care at a local inn.  All practical worldly help, no mention of the Samaritan trying to convert the Jew.

How do the JWs interpret that story?  I've quoted what is written in the "Watchtower" earlier in this thread but it is worth quoting again.

Watchtower 2017 May p.7
"Like the neighborly Samaritan in Jesus’ illustration, we want to help suffering people, including those who are not Witnesses. (Luke 10:33-37) The best way to do so is by sharing the good news with them. “It is important to make clear right away that we are Jehovah’s Witnesses and that our primary mission is to help them spiritually, not materially,” notes an elder who has helped many refugees. “Otherwise, some may associate with us only for personal advantage.”"

What is the response when the JWs are questioned on their beliefs or criticised for them - they call you agents of the devil!

I may not believe in a God and certainly not in the type of God held holy by the JWs but organisations such as the Salvation Army are deserving of praise and put my neighbourlyness and charity to shame.

How do JWs view the Salvation Army?  Well a hint can be seen from their online library:-

"An unusual feature of the organization is the prominence accorded women. According to Army teaching, “the position of women is equal to that of men.” As a result, women have had much to do with the direction and policy of the Salvation Army, often taking the oversight of men. In fact, for thirty years Evangeline Booth served as the head of the Salvation Army in the United States, and for five years directed the entire world-wide organization. In the United States today there are more women that are officers than men

.

Some may laud equality with men as a noble ideal, but it runs directly counter to the Bible principle: “The head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man.” The apostle Paul showed that it was not the woman’s position to take the lead in teaching men within the Christian congregation, when he told Timothy: “I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.” In granting women equal ministerial privileges the Salvation Army does not follow Bible precedent. And neither is wearing distinctive military garments following the example set by Jesus or his apostles. It is rather an imitation of the military organizations of this world"

[astrologica]

Still no answer?

[0125arwen]

For thousands of old and lonely citizens JW are the only visitors they get, for you that may seem trivial, for them it is not.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I don't consider that as trivial - I do question why they are visited though!

JWs don't visit anyone with the intention of helping them in any practical way - the intention is purely to try and convert them to their way of thinking.  In other words the intention is to benefit themselves not the person they are visiting.

You might just as well say that scammers who visit old people should be praised as they may be the only company they get!

[plpmr]

In my post @ #32 I raised a number of valid points including -

“Also, OP is not alone by not addressing questions rather just keep quoting parrot fashion beliefs. There never is any real 'discussion'.”

OP responded @ #34

“You will find most questions get answered.” and directing me to Jehovah's Witnesses official website.

Thereby proving two things - what I said and what you said - "ducking the question".

[0125arwen]

Are you really that desperate to malign JW that you can't see the difference between a scammer and a JW?

A clue, one is there to rip citizens off and one is there to preach their version of the word of god.

For many the fact they waffle about god is neither here nor there, the fact they are there at all is everything.

I know which one i would prefer to visit the elderly and it is not the scammer.

I don't have all that animosity weighing me down though.

[upthecreekyetagain]

My preference would be that neither visited!

And no I'm not desperate to malign the JWs - that infers that the criticisms I have made of them have no basis in fact - I cannot support any group that tries both to scare people into joining them and even worse actively cause great distress to those who try to leave.

Let me ask, do you know anyone who has left the JWs?  If you do I simply cannot see how you can condone the behaviour of the JWs.

[the-blue-rose]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Again you are preaching at me.

I'm talking about charity of a practical kind, given irrespective of the beliefs recipients may or may not hold.

I can't find many, in fact I can't find any, examples of physical, practical aid given to non JWs and yet the Watchtower claim charitable status in countries across the world - thankfully many countries are looking at this including the UK.  Far more in terms of tax exemptions is given to the JWs than they ever spend helping so called non-believers.

I wonder if members of the JWs really do know more about the cult they are members of than those on the outside looking in and who have contact with ex-members.

---

Cant find any? Maybe look in the right place 🙂  you obviously know where to look for articles you can use out of context to back up any allegations you make.

I would think the reasons for the need to separate ourselves from ex members would be pretty obvious. 1 Corinthians 15:33 it is not because we wish them harm or hate them, or we are accusing them of being criminals or lepers are anything like that. We just choose to not to to socialise in line with that scripture as they no longer wish to be a JW and love God. I am sure you pick and choose who you socialise with, comparing their values with yours, whether they are law abiding or not. I am sure if you have children you would give them guidelines of who to mix with, who in your opinion is acceptable where your standards are concerned.

[the-blue-rose]

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@astrologica wrote:

'Why'...that is not an answer. It Is ducking the question. 

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Correct, not an answer. I was asking why so I could determine how I could answer, whether or not I need to keep my answer simple or whether going into deeper detail would be necessary. 🙂