Corona virus is more evidence.

[the-blue-rose]

The corona virus is evidence we are deep into "the last days"

The Bible’s answer
The Bible describes events and conditions that would mark “the conclusion of the [current] system of things,” or “the end of the world.” (Matthew 24:3; King James Version) The Bible calls this time period “the last days” and the “time of the end,” or “end times.” (2 Timothy 3:1; Daniel 8:​19; Easy-to-Read Version) The following are some outstanding features of last-days, or end-times, prophecies:
War on a large scale.​—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:4.
Famine.​—Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:​5, 6.
Great earthquakes.​—Luke 21:11.
Pestilences, or epidemics of “terrible diseases.”​—Luke 21:11, Contemporary English Version.
Increase of crime.​—Matthew 24:12.
Ruining of the earth by mankind.​—Revelation 11:18.
Deterioration of people’s attitudes, as shown by many who are “unthankful, disloyal, . . . not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride.”​—2 Timothy 3:​1-4.
Breakdown of the family, with people who have “no natural affection” and children who are “disobedient to parents.”​—2 Timothy 3:​2, 3.
Love of God growing cold in most people.​—Matthew 24:12.
Noteworthy displays of religious hypocrisy.​—2 Timothy 3:5.
Increased understanding of Bible prophecies, including those related to the last days.​—Daniel 12:4.
Global preaching of the good news of the Kingdom.​—Matthew 24:14.
Widespread apathy and even ridicule toward the evidence of the approaching end.​—Matthew 24:37-​39; 2 Peter 3:​3, 4.
The simultaneous fulfillment of all these prophecies, not just a few or even most of them.​—Matthew 24:33.

Are we living in “the last days”?

Yes. World conditions as well as Bible chronology indicate that the last days began in 1914. At that time, God’s Kingdom began ruling in heaven, and one of its first actions was to expel Satan the Devil and the demons from heaven and restrict their activity to the earth. (Revelation 12:​7-​12) Satan’s influence on mankind can be seen in many of the bad attitudes and actions that make the last days “critical times hard to deal with.”​—2 Timothy 3:1.

We ar living in the times of the four horseman.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no3-2017-may/who-are-the-four-horsemen/

[upthecreekyetagain]

My posted question in this instance is directed at you.  If a child accused a member of your congregation of abuse, but there wasn't any witness to the abuse, would the "elders" report the accusation to the police?

A very simple question needing just a yes or no answer.

[the-blue-rose]

My simple answer is, after being given a short period of time for the accused to confess to the police themselves, if they don't then Yes it will be reported.

[mustard-tree]

Re message number 20.  I havent read it, but amazed that your podgy fingers typed all that on a phone

[plpmr]

The problem with religion, any religion, is that its intangible and open to be twisted or misinterpreted for advantage.

According to your post it all started in 1914 and your post cites, for example, extracts from the Bible – but why switch between different versions?

Your post opens with “The corona virus is evidence we are deep into "the last days"” What about, for example, the Black Death? Corona has a very long way to go to match that – but you cite 1914 as your starting point – nearly 600 years after Black Death.

[Anonymous]

You seem to know Busty well or maybe you are her in a new frock.

Did you make a Freudian slip when writing "...there only seems to be a few old faithfuls.."?

How do you know who are the old faithfuls on here if you are a new member on this forum.

Just asking...

[upthecreekyetagain]

Hmmm!  I do hope you are right - the Catholic Church had a similar problem that stretched over decades with abusers being protected by the Church - over the last few years they appear to have addressed this and became pro-active in rooting out the evil.

Maybe at some stage we will see similar acknowledgement of what has/is happening by the Watchtower.  Meanwhile it seems that denials and secrecy are the order of the day.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/04/high-court-judge-jehovahs-witnesses-prioritised-spiritua...

https://www.oxygen.com/the-witnesses/crime-news/how-policies-of-the-jehovahs-witnesses-keep-child-se...

Attorneys for the religion argue that when congregation leaders learn of child sexual abuse, those reports are considered confidential spiritual communications -- like a priest hearing a confession -- even when the report comes from the victim. 

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-clai...

The leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses – one of the world’s most insular religions – for 25 years has instructed its elders to keep cases of child sexual abuse secret from law enforcement and members of their own congregations, according to an examination of thousands of pages of documents in recent cases.

The religion’s parent organization, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, issued the directives in at least 10 memos dating back to 1989. Although the memos were anonymously written, Watchtower officials have testified that the organization’s Governing Body approved them all.

The most recent letter, dated Nov. 6, 2014, instructed elders – the spiritual leaders of local congregations – to form confidential committees to handle potential criminal matters internally.

https://nltimes.nl/2018/05/02/nearly-300-reports-sexual-abuse-among-dutch-jehovahs-witnesses

[bankhaunter]

It is only since 1914 that many of the prophecies regarding the last days are becoming fulfilled so I disagree that the quote " just around the corner" has been used for over 2,000 years.

First failed prophecy, or could it be called a dishonoured promise.

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

As for the Jehovah's Witnesses, I suggest you learn a bit more about them and try some intellectual honesty.

Russel's first prophecy

1799, Last days began.

1874, Start of Jesus' invisible presence.

1878, Jesus became King in Heaven.

1914, End of the world.

When that did not happen, Rutherford had a rethink.

"WE HAVE no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925." Watchtower 1922 May 15 p.147

1914,Last days began.

 Start of Jesus' invisible presence.

 Jesus became King in Heaven.

1925, End of the world, later changed to 'within months'.

[plpmr]

"Start of Jesus' invisible presence."

As I said - intangible.

However if one looks at the end of the world factually - every one has to died and that's the end of this world for them.

[bankhaunter]

One has to look long and hard to find a true prophecy that isn't stating the obvious and then you won't find one.

[the-blue-rose]

As for the Jehovah's Witnesses, I suggest you learn a bit more about them and try some intellectual honesty.   OUCH🙁

Where JESUS'S coming is concerned he started ruling as king in the heavens in 1914, there was no failed prophesy as the bible states when.

The scripture you have quoted is talking about the annointed (144,000), the end will come at a time when there are still some of them alive on earth. There are not many left now as most are advanced in years. That also should tell you that the time of the end is not very far away if some will still be alive when it's time for Jehovah fullfilling  his promises.

The more important thing for now is not to be fixated on past imperfect mens misunderstandings and assumptions as that is clearly what Satan is influencing many to do.

We have a lot to thank Russell and Rutherford for because they showed us the way to Jehovah and his word, and Jehovah has continued to open up the scriptures for our understanding. Mans interpretations may have been slightly off the mark but the prophesies have always stayed the same, many fulfilled and many yet to be.

We put out trust in God and work to not allow Satan to draw us away from him.

[astrologica]

So are the identities of the 144.000 'anointed' known to the ordinary or common or garden JWs such as yourself. Just wondering. Who anoints them..and how. 

[plpmr]

That would be telling, as I previous said 'intangible'.

Also, OP is not alone by not addressing questions rather just keep quoting parrot fashion beliefs. There never is any real 'discussion'.

Why does it all start in 1914?

“Mans interpretations may have been slightly off the mark but the prophesies have always stayed the same, many fulfilled and many yet to be.”

“fulfilled” now that's a definite, so lets have the facts.

[the-blue-rose]

---

@astrologica wrote:

So are the identities of the 144.000 'anointed' known to the ordinary or common or garden JWs such as yourself. Just wondering. Who anoints them..and how. 

---

They are known to the other christians around them at the time yes. We have a spiritual sister in one of our towns congregations. I know her personally. I also have a spiritual sister in my congregation who's father was annointed but has since passed away so will be in his heavenly place ruling with Jesus Christ.

God annoints them with his Holy Spirit.

[the-blue-rose]

---

That would be telling, as I previous said 'intangible'.

Incorrect. 

Also, OP is not alone by not addressing questions rather just keep quoting parrot fashion beliefs. There never is any real 'discussion'.

You will find most questions get answered. 

Why does it all start in 1914?

That question has been answered many times. If you wish to fine the answer log on to jw.org you will find it there.

“Mans interpretations may have been slightly off the mark but the prophesies have always stayed the same, many fulfilled and many yet to be.”

“fulfilled” now that's a definite, so lets have the facts.

Those answers can also be found on jw.org

[bankhaunter]

Name me one real prophecy that has been shown to come true.

Note I used the word 'real', it has to be quite specific and clearly made before an obvious event.

Nothing vague or that needs interpretation.

The scripture you have quoted is talking about the annointed (144,000),

You mean Jesus was talking to 144,000 people at the time, he must have had a very loud voice.

Mans interpretations may have been slightly off the mark

According to those who want to push their own interpretation.  What makes them right and not others?

All you have to thank Russel and Rutherford for is their lies and the establishing of a cult that traps people doing everything it can to prevent them leaving.

Why do you think it encourages members to only have friends from within the movement, why do you think it discourages education, why do you think there is so much control of its members.

Ever heard of the BITE model?

[plpmr]

thank you for conforming what I said above =

Also, OP is not alone by not addressing questions rather just keep quoting parrot fashion beliefs. There never is any real 'discussion'.

[the-blue-rose]

---

@plpmr wrote:

thank you for conforming what I said above =

---

You are very welcome. 🙂

[the-blue-rose]

Name me one real prophecy that has been shown to come true.

Note I used the word 'real', it has to be quite specific and clearly made before an obvious event.

Nothing vague or that needs interpretation.

hmmm, which one shall I answer with I really am spoilt for choice as there are hundreds but you ask for just one.

I choose The destruction of The city of Jerusalem.

An interesting article to regarding it.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2018-may-jun/arch-of-titus-accurate-prophecy/

plus 2 wikipedia articles giving some historical proof

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus_(Circus_Maximus)

The scripture you have quoted is talking about the annointed (144,000),

You mean Jesus was talking to 144,000 people at the time, he must have had a very loud voice.

I have no idea what you are suggesting here bankhaunter I'm sorry. 

The 144,000 were taken from early Christians up to recent times, (I don't know of a specific time frame) so no I don't mean what you imply. The first annointed were of a group of Christians including Jesus 11 disciples who were annointed with Jehovahs holy spirit at Pentecost 33CE

Mans interpretations may have been slightly off the mark

According to those who want to push their own interpretation.  What makes them right and not others?

When JW's follow Jehovahs commandment to Preach and teach the bible with its scriptures  is the basis for what is passed on and taught, as all Christians are imperfect humans sometimes scriptures can be slightly misunderstood. It is not the case that someone is trying to PUSH their own interpretation, they are sincere in feeling they are doing Gods work, If mistakes are made then Jehovah, will when he feels it is needed have those scriptures made more clear. 

That is what has happened over the years, so now we have a better understanding of what Jehovah has promised and when.

It is the faith of each individual that they have the truth where others don't based on the scriptures. There us only 2 choices you are either on the narrow road to salvation or the wide road to destruction. Few are the ones finding the narrow road.

All you have to thank Russel and Rutherford for is their lies and the establishing of a cult that traps people doing everything it can to prevent them leaving.

Why do you think it encourages members to only have friends from within the movement, why do you think it discourages education, why do you think there is so much control of its members.

To quote your words bankhaunter, What a load of codswollap ?   

You are entitled to your opinions, they don't happen to be mine or any other true Christian's. Anyone can leave when ever they wish because it is all down to freedom of choice. 

1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be misled bad associations spoil useful habits. That's why we are required to be choosy with who we mix with. Jehovah certainly does not discourage education 🤣🤣 how absurd.

As I mentioned before freedom of choice is not control.

Ever heard of the BITE model?  no, I have no idea of what that is, and judging by your post I don't think I need to either 🙂

[upthecreekyetagain]

As there is a lot of evidence that the Gospels were written after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans I'm not sure that is a particularly good example - doesn't matter though because you are spoilt for choice - so what are you going to offer?

Maybe one that justifies ignoring the cries of children for help?

[bankhaunter]

I think I said REAL prophesies, not ones written after the event, nor ones amde that could well come true if you wait long enough.

I could prophesy a president on the US will die in an aeroplane crash.

If it eventually happens, was that a proper prophecy?

The scripture I quoted, was it said to 144,000 people?

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

So you claim that interpretation by JWs is the correct one.  Based on what exactly.

Give me empirical evidence that Russel and Rutherford were telling the truth.

The BITE model is used to see if an organisation is a cult, the Jehovah's Witnesses qualify.

https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-and-jehovahs-witnesses/