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celticthebhoys585 · ‎11-07-2016

Never in a way you brexiters thought it would. All the chamelons have been exposed,tight majority vote.Country and goverment in chaos.

It's the money men that will decide as always! What made you think they'd let the people decide-never have done in centuries!

upthecreekyetagain · ‎14-03-2019

If the EU27 do turn down an extension and TMs deal is again rejected then leaving without a deal is not the only option - in fact doing so would be against the “will of Parliament” - another likely option would be to revoke Article 50 altogether meaning we simply remain in the EU.

Deno thread on FHG

celticthebhoys585 · ‎15-03-2019

Frankly am not a.r.s.e.d. anymore. The EU WILL not trust a thing the UK say now

Westminster are just ridiculous

https://twitter.com/Sneekyboy/status/1106478968562245633

astrologica · ‎15-03-2019

Theresa May is the EU's puppet. They are telling her what to say. She does not want to leave.

upthecreekyetagain · ‎15-03-2019

I’m no fan of TM nor the Conservative Party but to be fair she seems to be the only one in Parliament actually trying to get the UK to leave the EU!

She agreed a deal with the EU - turned down by Parliament.

She tried to keep a ‘no-deal’ exit on the table - turned down by Parliament.

Her revised deal with the EU turned down once again by Parliament

With no deal option off the table only option to ask for a delay in leaving - Parliament agree

Voted against a second referendum

In contrast look at the way JC and the Labour Party have behaved

Rejected proposed deal to leave the EU.

Voted against a ‘no deal’ exit.

Voted against revised deal to leave EU

Decided “now is not the time” to have another referendum

Deno thread on FHG

astrologica · ‎15-03-2019

Her deal is NOT leaving. It's Brexit in name only. It's what the EU wants..not what the British people want.

astrologica · ‎15-03-2019

EU Referendum Results 2016.

By Votes:

17.4 million Leave 16.1 Remain

By Constituency:

406 Leave 242 Remain

Constituencies by Party:

Labour 148 Leave 84 Remain

Conservative. 247 Leave 80 Remain

By Region:

9 Leave 3 Remain

By MPs:

160 Leave 486 Remain.

what does that tell you?

our MPs are a law unto themselves and just do not listen to their constituents. And that includes my own MP.

When the referendum took place I had faith that the results would be honoured, as promised. Not any more...and much as it pains me to say it, I fear that Celtic will be proved correct with his original post. The EU will make sure that we never leave. More referendums until we comply, or blackmail and Project Fear until we accept Theresa's 'deal'. I am ashamed of my Government and Parliament. This country is phucked. I am so angry..and a whole lot of other people are too. I just hope that we don't just lie down and take it. I'm approaching 76, but if necessary I will be out with a yellow vest.

Rant over.

celticthebhoys585 · ‎15-03-2019

This is what everyone will get on 29-3-19

upthecreekyetagain · ‎15-03-2019

@astrologica wrote:
Her deal is NOT leaving. It's Brexit in name only. It's what the EU wants..not what the British people want.

But we do NOT know what the British people want - the referendum simply asked, “Should the UK remain a member of the EU”.

There was no corollary to the question so all points of view answered ‘No’ to the question. Some would accept TM’s deal, some would accept JC’s wish to remain in the Customs Union and the Single Market - others would only accept an exit with no deal whatsoever and possibly many more with wishes somewhere in-between or outside of those options. All those options would satisfy the result of the referendum in that with them all we’d no longer be members of the EU.

The only way we’d ever know what the people really wanted would be with another vote.

Deno thread on FHG

upthecreekyetagain · ‎15-03-2019

Out of interest what is it about TM’s deal that makes it a leave in name only deal.

The vast majority of objections over the deal are over the Irish ‘backstop’ - the other parts of the agreement seem to be generally acceptable by most MPs, (apart from the radicals who want to leave with no deal whatsoever).

Deno thread on FHG

astrologica · ‎15-03-2019

We will not be out of the single market..we will be in it until Dec 2020 when there will be a 'new trading relationship'. What will that entail?

the EU will still be fishing in British waters, backstabbing all those British fishermen who thought they were going to have a fishing industry again. New deals will be made regarding that issue. What will they be?

We will still be contributing to EU pensions and other commitments until 2020. What happens after that?

We will still be in a Customs arrangement, so...what's changed? All the Remoaners say 'We didn't know what we voted for' but this deal doesn't finalise anything. It just leaves everything for further negotiation, and who knows what the results will be.

Mrs May's 'deal' is not a deal that makes a clean break. It's a fudge, which allows for further capitulations down the line. Practically no-one in the Houses of Parliament wants to leave, while most of their constituents do. And what a monumental c**k up to take 'no deal' off the table..the best bargaining chip they had. Just goes to show that they are not really interested in leaving.

upthecreekyetagain · ‎15-03-2019

That’s a rather distorted view of what the deal offers

Single market - yes we would remain in the Single Market and the Customs Union for a fixed period - during which time we would be able to negotiate trade deals with non EU members - something we can’t do whilst members. This would reduce the confusion, delays and cost of one day having EU negotiated trade deals with non-EU members and the next day none at all - this transition period makes perfect sense.

We have committed financial contracts with numerous EU projects many of which we benefit from - again a transition period to end these in terms of contributions and receipts makes sense.

Fishing rights - again a fixed term transition period makes sense - without such a deal our fishing industry would be devastated as the majority of the catch made by British boats is actually exported to the EU and the majority of fish we eat is imported.

Note these transition periods are all for a fixed period and/or with the right by the UK to end them unilaterally and benefit the UK every bit as much as they do the EU.

It has been the non-defined time period for the Irish backstop and the lack of the legal right to end it unilaterally that has been the stumbling block.

Deno thread on FHG

astrologica · ‎15-03-2019

Creeky ...when looking at Mrs May's deal, one's view of it is coloured by one' s standpoint..i.e. Whether one is a Remainer or a Leaver.

I would not trust those EU snake oil salesmen as far as I could throw them. You would obviously trust them to give us lovely deals. Their whole history is based and built on lies and deceit.

All these final deals and details should have been done before she presented her deal to the people and Parliament. As it stands, no one will know what the end result will be. The can has been kicked down the road for three years almost...so what is happening now is entirely predictable and in my view entirely by design.

upthecreekyetagain · ‎15-03-2019

As a member of the EU we legally couldn’t/can’t unilaterally negotiate trade deals with non-EU countries. So these have to be made after we’ve left - what other option is there to a transition period?

Likewise with fishing, currently the EU decides quotas, ‘territories’ and being in the single market fixes tariff free trade between EU members. It just isn’t practical to say that on the Friday we can export most of our catches to the EU but come the Saturday morning we would face tariffs on our exports, bring back our boats fishing in EU waters and arrange quotas for them to fish in British waters.

What would happen to students at our universities and colleges whose funding is being paid for by EU members, the many EU funded conservation projects being carried out across the UK and the various EU supported development projects. Not something that can really be sorted until we are actually out of the EU.

Deno thread on FHG

upthecreekyetagain · ‎15-03-2019

In any case whether or not the deal is too soft, too open to deals not to the UK’s benefit, will cost too much or whatever - what can’t be denied is that it satisfies the result of the referendum.

Remember the question was - “Should the UK remain a member of the EU” - Under the deal we won’t be a member - it may not satisfy a lot of people but that’s not the point.

The conditions under which we leave the EU, (something the voters have never been asked to express an opinion on so we truly don’t know the majorities wishes), are irrelevant in honouring the result of the EU so long as we don’t remain a member.

Deno thread on FHG