An example of how farcical the bedroom tax is

[crazy-bargain-store]

My neighbour's rent is currently £80 and is 100% paid by housing benefit.

He has a spare bedroom which is a small box room.

He has been told that from April he will have to contribute £11.20 per week towards the rent which he cannot afford so he has found a one bedroom flat to rent in the private sector. The rent for this flat is £90 per week which will be paid 100% by housing benefit.

How can this make sense?

[bankhaunter]

Plainly though such places are not intended for those with children. 🙂

With older people there may also be the question of what happens if they require care support.

Will someone having been pushed into private accommodation with little security of tenure, be able to have adaptations etc.?

I can see there being many more places in care homes being required in the future and the cost of that will far outweigh any savings.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Don't we have a bit of a nonsense here?

Surely if the existing occupant is acting unfairly by occupying a house with a spare bedroom and therefore should lose some of their housing benefit, the fact they move out to allow someone who can pay the rent to move in doesn't make the situation any more fair, the new occupant is also acting unfairly by occupying a house bigger than they need.

The chances of new occupants over 50 having children is somewhat remote.

Or does 'fairness' depend on whether or not the occupant receives housing benefit.

Surprised you haven't picked me up on the problem with my maths 😉

[bankhaunter]

I didn't trouble about the maths because the people that moved in may also have been receiving HB. which would have made them pointless. 🙂

[joe_bloggs*]

Great Bedroom tax video on youtube !

"You Cannae Have A Spare Room in a Pokey Cooncil Flat"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Bik9299kA0c#!

LYRICS AND INFO
A song about the Bedroom Tax, written for the demos all over the UK on Saturday 30th March, 2013, the Glasgow one in particular. Set to the tune of 1960's folk song "The Jeely Piece Song", by Scottish singer-songwriter Adam McNaugton.

Be sure to sing along to the words!

[upthecreekyetagain]

I didn't trouble about the maths because the people that moved in may also have been receiving HB. which would have made them pointless. 🙂

Nothing to do with whether the new tenants receive housing benefit or not.

Two departments in the council - one receives rent, the other pays out HB.

Before the move the benefits department pays the rent department £80 - net cost to the council nil

After the move the rent department receives rent from privat tenant of £80, the benefits department pays the private landlord £90 - net cost to the council, £10.

[Anonymous]

 hey joe what a song, blerdy fantastic. liked the part about those scroungers getting £200 per week food allowance. its about time people with true hearts beating within their chests with human blood flowing through their viens stood up and said NO MORE, what a bunch of in human buffoons they are, i just cannot wait till camoron gets the jackzi right up his (where the sun dont shine) come the next election. only e-bay rules stop me for ranting on a stronger scale. if only.

[joe_bloggs*]

Pete,pleased you liked it!, i have contacted him and he has given permission to use at the Newcastle bedroom tax protest on 6/4/12 at Greys monument,I,ve also sent it to various blogs and as a result the viewing figures for his video are shooting up!

[bankhaunter]

Nothing to do with whether the new tenants receive housing benefit or not.

Two departments in the council - one receives rent, the other pays out HB.

Before the move the benefits department pays the rent department £80 - net cost to the council nil

After the move the rent department receives rent from privat tenant of £80, the benefits department pays the private landlord £90 - net cost to the council, £10.

If tenant A moves out resulting in a net loss to the council of £10 and Tenant B moves in who has been previously housed by a private landlord at a net cost of £10, there has been no change.

The variability of gains/losses make any one hypothetical example a bit meaningless, it would seem to me that any anticipated savings in HB will only be made if those affected do not move, mostly because they cannot.

[joe_bloggs*]

A DISABLED woman from Liverpool who had a special lift shaft built through the floor of her spare room has been told she must still pay hundreds of pounds in “bedroom tax”.
Read more: Liverpool Echo http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2013/03/12/liverpool-woman-faces-600-bedroo...

Well some good news for Janet she received her post today at 1.45pm which included a Benefit Decision Notice from the council to say she is NOT subject to the bedroom tax.

Every one of the 660,000 bedroom tax affected tenants should appeal and has just cause to do so. That does give hope.

[treefrog6352]

If the spare bedroom is less than 90 sq feet it is classed as a box room, and if you apeal it you will win

[treefrog6352]

I've just researched the above and it is wrong, sorry a box room NOW qualifies as a bedroom

[bankhaunter]

I've just researched the above and it is wrong, sorry a box room NOW qualifies as a bedroom

But only sleeps one person or two children under ten if less than 90 sq. ft..

Between 50 and 70 sq ft. only one child under ten

Less than 50 sq. ft. is not a room.

However that only applies to private landlords.

[joe_bloggs*]

Everyone who is affected should appeal,it will eventually become uneconomic for the councils to defend every case,which apparently cost a few thousand pounds each,unless of course the councils realise how much this is going to cost and reverse their decisions themselves.

The DWP have forecast that only 3% will appeal,I think that once the word gets out for everyone to appeal it will greatly exceed their 3% figure,and we will see the bedroom tax consigned to the dustbin of history and remove all the unnecessary suffering and worry from the people involved

[Anonymous]

hi joe, alas my anti this and anti that marching days are over (did plenty of that while working? at swan hunter ship yard), my way of getting un liked hated trash out is to place my X on anothers name come election time. up here in wallsend there is an election in may, i cannot wait to see the libdib candidate............................i know for a fact the tory trash will not show his/her face. 

[cee-dee]

OK, this is off the main topic but illustrates what I said at #6, = the people who implement "rules" are lacking in common sense:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21951280

[00bulldog00]

First of all if the 'box room' is a box room he wouldn't pay the bedroom tax as a room under certain measurements is not classed as a bedroom.

If the room has been assessed as a bedroom by the housing department then he is giving up the two bedroomed property for, example, a couple with kids in the housing queue.

[bankhaunter]

It would look as though social housing is no longer the provision of decent affordable housing for those in the lower income bracket but rather the supplying of temporary housing only for those with children who are also homeless.

We have come a long way since the original concept of providing housing in which the professional person would live next door to the labourer.

[renomarvinm]

This is all well and good, and the OP has a valid argument.  But when all is said and done, what you really need is:

JOBS for people so they can work.  INDUSTRY to feed the jobs.  A healthy ECONOMY to keep it all going.  And CONSUMERISM to spread it all arouand.

For what it's worth, that's what we need here, too.  But we don't have it, either.

[upthecreekyetagain]

How does social housing work in the States Reno?

Just interested in understanding how other countries deal with those who cannot "afford" to pay commercial rents.

[joe_bloggs*]

Writing in the Guardian right wing Labour MP Frank Field says the bedroom tax is doomed to fail: "It is Treasury driven. There are always schemes in the department like this horrible one which civil servants take off the shelf."he added: "I have constituents who don't want to but may break up their own circle of friends and go and live somewhere else. But it will cost more. The housing benefit bill will go up because rent levels you can go up to in the private sector are larger than in the public sector."

: "Housing officers are having to go round and tell people and they are in tears. These people have not wanted to be in what the government now defines as the 'wrong' house for them to be in.

"The government is introducing social and physical engineering on a scale that Stalin would have been proud of. The way they are doing it is so extraordinary."

And this coming from a man who is the governments "poverty tsar"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/29/bedroom-tax-worthy-stalin-poverty-tsar

An article surprisingly from the mail "British people are committing suicide to escape poverty. Is this what the State wants?"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2117718/British-people-committing-suicide-escape-poverty-I...