Who else here is planning to close all their listings before midnight on the 4th?

[daro2096]

From February 5th it won't be worth it to sell on eBay because of buyer's fees being introduced so on the 4th before midnight I am planning to close all and any items I have up.

Anyone else doing the same?

If eBay want private sellers here they are doing their best to get rid of us.

I will never sell here again(I know I said this before but this time I am out completely).

Well done eBay. RIP eBay, it was good while it lasted.

[akemp1]

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@game_raid wrote:

The HMRC don't care about individual sales of an item on self assessment unless it falls under CGT , they are interested in money in, money out and what's left in the middle.

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How do they determine the cost of the records they have sold if it was part of a joblot of varying value? Do they just divide the total joblot cost by the number of items to get an average unit cost or do they do some kind of justification that some items had a higher cost than others? For example if they kept some or listed others at a higher value, etc. Sounds like they have basically been giving the £1 ones away for nothing.

[papso22]

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@akemp1 wrote:

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@game_raid wrote:

The HMRC don't care about individual sales of an item on self assessment unless it falls under CGT , they are interested in money in, money out and what's left in the middle.

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How do they determine the cost of the records they have sold if it was part of a joblot of varying value? Do they just divide the total joblot cost by the number of items to get an average unit cost or do they do some kind of justification that some items had a higher cost than others? For example if they kept some or listed others at a higher value, etc. Sounds like they have basically been giving the £1 ones away for nothing.

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Why don't you ask HMRC?

[akemp1]

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@papso22 wrote:

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Why don't you ask HMRC?

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Because they take about a year to reply to letters and I'm not interested enough to make that commitment and it would be a waste of their time replying to me as I don't split joblots of records for resale.

[game_raid]

This is a business perspective

They don't determine the cost, when you buy a joblot and try and get back what you paid for everything. I used to buy shop return pallets and a lot of stuff was thrown away or sold for less than a few pounds

I would pay £500 for the pallet and get around £650 back once sold which means I made £150, out of all the items at least 30% was unsellable or sold for £1-2 just to get some money back, thankfully there was some high ticket items that were selling around retail.

On my tax return the £500 would be part of that years turnover, the HMRC don't want to know about this individual purchase unless they do an inspection then they would want to see the invoice.

A typical collector will buy a job lot, keep the valuable ones and sell the less valuable to try and get some money back, whether this is seen as a business is another thing, some say it isn't a lot say it is, I guess you could say it isn't a business as no profit has been made if they are taking a loss.

[papso22]

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@akemp1 wrote:

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@papso22 wrote:

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Why don't you ask HMRC?

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Because they take about a year to reply to letters and I'm not interested enough to make that commitment and it would be a waste of their time replying to me as I don't split joblots of records for resale.

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Fair enough, I am not interested enough to commit to answering hypothetical questions.

[wa44iner]

Hello all

We didn't mean to cause a storm. We are just two people who love vinyl. We buy it in bulk for ourselves, keep the records that we want and sell the rest. The 2020 lockdown really has caused this issue because without it  we would have just remained ebay buyers. We had all the professional record cleaning equipment before we sold a single record here. We hardly made any real money but it was never the point. It became an extension of our hobby. We have spoken to so many nice people who share our love of vinyl, have helped others rekindle memories and some have even brought records that made them smile about loved ones who had passed away.  It is moments like that, that we will miss. You know... thinking about it and all the great messages we did get, maybe the 2020 lockdown wasn't such a bad thing after all.

[moldosgifts]

We buy it in bulk for ourselves, keep the records that we want and sell the rest.

I've already pointed out that that is a business activity.

Because the intention is to sell the spares you don't want.

Plus the ones you keep are taxable at cost.

As in taken for owners use.

But as you ending everything because of the buyers fee it all mute now.

Best of luck in the future 

Don't shoot the messenger im just pointing out what you have said

[akemp1]

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@moldosgifts wrote:

Because the intention is to sell the spares you don't want.

Plus the ones you keep are taxable at cost.

As in taken for owners use.

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I'm still interested to know how the cost for the records sold in the accounting period, unsold in the accounting period or retained for a private collection should be determined such that the total adds up to the joblot cost when they are individually of differing value and that a cost of sales in the period can be declared to determine if a profit was made.

I suspect those £1 ones are basically worthless from a cost perspective and all the joblot value was in the higher value sales in the period, higher value unsold and retained the collection. 

[moldosgifts]

Cost is easy it is whatever they paid for the 20k divided by 20k.

That's the cost per record. 

Job lots are very easily priced using that method.

Value is whatever someone is willing to pay

[top.quality.products]

However if you sell more than £1,000.00 in a year eBay now have to report you to HMRC and you will be liable for tax.  HMRC can also go back 5 years with their assesment

[akemp1]

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@moldosgifts wrote:

Cost is easy it is whatever they paid for the 20k divided by 20k.

That's the cost per record. 

Job lots are very easily priced using that method.

Value is whatever someone is willing to pay

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In which case lets say the joblot cost say £20k for easy maths the cost of each record regardless of rarity was £1 each and they sell the vast majority at £1 basically giving them away for a loss of £1 as their ebay selling fees, packaging, returns, etc are on average equal to £1 and they are charging postage based on actuals then they have made no profit overall they have just bought some records to get the ones they wanted for their private collection and kinda given away the rest?  Even any profit they made on selling some for slightly more than £1 may be covered by the loss on the others.

[moldosgifts]

It the activity not the intent or the money made that defines a business ACIVITY.

[moldosgifts]

It's £1740 or 30 items which ever comes first

[akemp1]

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@top.quality.products wrote:

However if you sell more than £1,000.00 in a year eBay now have to report you to HMRC and you will be liable for tax.  HMRC can also go back 5 years with their assesment

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I think you may be thinking of the £1k trading allowance.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sellercentre/selling/selling-online-and-hmrc

Ebay will report your transactions to HMRC "if your total sales on eBay exceed €2000, or roughly £1740, after fees" or "if you complete 30 or more sales transactions on eBay"

On that page Ebay have an example of "Ben" who is selling £18k of his trading cards to make a profit of £2900 which is below the CGT threshold. Their example could have a bit more specific to say Ben hasn't recently acquired these cards with the intent to resell them, etc.

[akemp1]

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@moldosgifts wrote:

It the activity not the intent or the money made that defines a business ACIVITY.

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I was commenting on the tax position (ie possibly no profit made if the cost of every record is equal) rather than what type of account the seller should have.

[johnwash1]

Talking of vinyl, sometimes when I visit these forums, I have this feeling much like when the stylus skips back a groove and repeats.  Over and over.  And over.  And over.  Really really irritating, but at least with a record player you can give it a little jog and resume normal service.

[moldosgifts]

Profit is irrelevant its  the reason you purchased the items with the intention of selling the extras.

[akemp1]

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@moldosgifts wrote:

Profit is irrelevant its  the reason you purchased the items with the intention of selling the extras.

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I think we are talking about different things. I can't see how the intention on an unprofitable activity would affect the amount of tax you pay to HMRC. If there was no profit because all items in the joblot were valued equally and the vast majority were sold at a total loss then surely there is no tax to pay?

[asleepingdragon]

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@jma2815 wrote:

Me neither. Waiting for the money is neither here nor there as I never spend it for a month anyway as they can always take it back in the event of a return or non delivery even if you get paid on the day of sale. 

I won’t be able to sell when buyer selected shipping comes in.  I live on the northern most tip of mainland Scotland and can only use RM click&drop collection with ‘bring my label’ as I’ve no car, no printer, and no access to any drop off points/parcel shops/lockers as there’s no public transport. 

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I'm really curious about the no printer folks.  I've had a printer as long as I've had a computer and now have two Brother laserjet (one mono, one colour), do you never want to print anything at all?  I use my printers all the time which is why I switched to laserjet, I can't imagine not being able to print.  

[asleepingdragon]

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@moldosgifts wrote:

But as you ending everything because of the buyers fee it all mute now.

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moot.

Moot refers to a subject that is open to debate, dispute, or uncertainty, whereas mute relates to an absence of sound or a person's inability to speak.