The new when we get paid rules from February.

[nichsm_2913]

Ebay was always heavily weighted in favour of the Buyers, but this new mad rule thats coming in next month about having to wait two days after delivery is confirmed to get paid is simply beyond the pale.

And sometimes delivery conformation never comes, apparently in that situation we have to wait 14 days to get our money.  

This is disgusting and completely nuts. A self-destructive move from Ebay.

[jma2815]

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@*devils.advocate* wrote:

.... it will become a Vinted style ....

That's what eBay are copying.

eBay have, regretfully, always been reactive and not pro-active as they should be,

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Yes, I know that’s what they’re copying. 

[*devils.advocate*]

If this fee everyone seems to be worried about, if they think it's a problem, then Vinted would have folded by now.

I've always said that eBay want rid of the cheap stuff - the 99p items, for example - so race to the bottom isn't an option if those bottom items aren't feasible?

[vintique*violet]

Vinted is for clothes isn't it?

There is a huge difference between second hand clothing and other  items/valuables... 

Plus eBay already have MBG etc .. the " protection fee"  protects nothing. 

[*devils.advocate*]

Vinted has always had a buyer's fee.

People are used to it - it's on other sites to some degree.

Rightly or wrongly, it's the "standard way".

So what's the difference here?

[vintique*violet]

I have never purchased from Vinted... I also do not use any other platform to sell. 

Vinted is a clothing site it is totally different to eBays platform.  

Vinted apparently started this way so people would have signed up knowing about a buyers fee.... eBay have moved the goal posts- giving with one hand and taking away with another... and it is not just the BPF, it is the funds held and simple delivery. 

 " Standard Way"... please explain? 

[*devils.advocate*]

….. it is the funds held and simple delivery …..

These are separate issues.

And I’ve said repeatedly that Simple Delivery is likely to be a disaster in the making - and the buyer's fee pales to insignificance against it.

To compete with each other, businesses (whether B&M or on-line) may have to copy what others do - for example, a “buyers fee”, in this instance.

Very basically, once one starts to gain an advantage, others will adapt - they have to.

So, it becomes “standard”.

eBay is reactive - they lost the ability to be proactive many, many moons ago.

[valueaddedresource]

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@vintique*violet wrote:

I wonder.... 

If it is to come? 

Didn't someone already mention that this partnership would allow your listings to be advertised within FB marketplace for Uk users... I may be misremembering ? 

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@vintique*violet here's the announcement from the eBay US community:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Introducing-eBay-s-partnership-with-Facebook-Marketplace...

I haven't seen anything from either eBay or Meta/FB about this partnership that mentions anything about the UK - only US, France and Germany.

France & Germany were presumably picked because of the EU Commission ruling you mentioned that came along with a big fine.

And in the US, there is an ongoing Federal Trade Commission lawsuit filed against Meta for similar antitrust/anti-competitive issues which is heading to trial in April and in which eBay was specifically brought up when business records were subpoenaed as part of the discovery process last year.

So including the US was also probably a way for Meta to try to get ahead of that and show they are already taking steps to address those competition concerns in hopes to avoid another big fine/judgement.

[rrickoshae]

A large number of people now buy and sell on fb market place, several I know stopped using eBay many months ago and are really happy with the market place experience
Sent from my iPad

[deepblue900]

It occurs to me, by withholding funds from sellers pending delivery confirmation, Ebay is purporting to act as an escrow agent which is contrary to how it characterises its role in the User Agreement: "eBay is not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. The contract for the sale is directly between buyer and seller. eBay is not a party to the transaction and is not a traditional auctioneer". I wonder if this makes the new policy susceptible to challenge under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.  (They also do not appear to be accounting for the interest earned on funds whilst withheld - no matter how small - which seems to be an aggravating factor).

[vintique*violet]

….. it is the funds held and simple delivery …..

These are separate issues.

Agreed, however they are part of the issue as the changes seem to have come all together. 

And I’ve said repeatedly that Simple Delivery is likely to be a disaster in the making - and the buyer's fee pales to insignificance against it.

Yes absolutely... Sorry have to disagree about BPF being insignificant - they all add to the frustration for private sellers. 

To compete with each other, businesses (whether B&M or on-line) may have to copy what others do - for example, a “buyers fee”, in this instance.

May have to copy - No they dont, they can come up with something which is far more user-friendly and look after their " customers" ...are they not the " leading" online marketplace?  eBay have the resources to do this and not just to fulfil their stakeholders pockets. 

Very basically, once one starts to gain an advantage, others will adapt - they have to.

So, it becomes “standard”.

BPF is no advantage on eBay ... it is a totally different " marketplace"... it already had these " benefits"... the BPF offers nothing more other than " phone call 24.7" if wished. 

So no it is not " standard"... they are copying something which eBay already offer free ( MBG etc) and misleading their customers. 

eBay is reactive - they lost the ability to be proactive many, many moons ago.

It seems that way. 

[vintique*violet]

It occurs to me, by withholding funds from sellers pending delivery confirmation, Ebay is purporting to act as an escrow agent which is contrary to how it characterises its role in the User Agreement: "eBay is not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. The contract for the sale is directly between buyer and seller. eBay is not a party to the transaction and is not a traditional auctioneer". I wonder if this makes the new policy susceptible to challenge under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.  (They also do not appear to be accounting for the interest earned on funds whilst withheld - no matter how small - which seems to be an aggravating factor).

I have said perhaps they are using an escrow  account to get around this in a previous comment... 

It concerns me greatly.. 

Escrow agent, solicitor , banks all use " escrow"  for high value and complicated transactions -such as property,  art...  it should not be for a marketplace where it is " simple" like buying from an online  supermarket.  

I am not sure how we can find out if  they are either an Escrow agent ( and when they became one?) or use an Escrow account and through whom? By doing so are they not now  including  a " third party " in the transactions between " buyer and seller"... by holding funds?

[*devils.advocate*]

Bottom line - whatever the case may be, individually we have to either like it or lump it - that’s the way it has always been with every change over the decades.

And with the number of people who say they won’t be buying or won’t be selling or are giving up altogether (and if, of course, they are a representative percentage of how others will act), this Board will be so quiet, eBay’ll probably shut it down and save some more money!

The M2M Board will be inundated - mentors, on your marks, get set …………………. !!

Let’s look at the Buyer’s Fee.

If, for example, you go out for a meal to a restaurant - do you just look at the final total or do you look at how that’s made up?

Do you look at how much the VAT is that all governments (irrespective of whether they’re red, blue, yellow ….) charge you just for eating?

Do you look to see if a ‘Service Charge’ is already included - but you still leave a tip?

Will eBay buyers really specifically inspect the financial aspects after they’ve paid what they think is a reasonable amount for an item they want and have received it and are happy with it?

Can’t we keep things in perspective and rooted in reality?

[kittycatsmum]

I cannot see any financial advantage to Ebay in closing this board down.

As for looking at Vat, Service charges, checking how a bill is worked out and similar, this is something I most definetly do, even in restaurants, I would definetly make choices on where to dine/shop/purchase partialy based on any hidden or extra charges occurred, particularly nowadays, I surely cannot be an exception to the rule, there must be many more like me.

Possibly you underestimate how many people do actually check these things, particularly in the current financial climate, most of the private sellers/buyers using Ebay aren't in a position to simply ignore the extra charges.

It's just my opinion of course

[jma2815]

That’s where I think sellers and eBay are both wrong though.  They think doubling the price of a £1.50 item will be unfeasible when in fact people won’t mind paying fees and postage on that because its still only £3 or £4 all told. If I was selling my stuff for under a fiver I wouldn’t be concerned at all about this. 

I don’t use Vinted but I’ve heard many younger friends and colleagues saying they don’t mind the fee as long as it all stays under a fiver. If its more they don’t want to pay to buy but if its something they really want they’ll be onto the seller asking for a sizeable discount to ‘cover’ it.

I think its important to note here that making offers is encouraged, nay, expected on ALL Vinted listings.  The last thing I sold here was a box of old coloured pencils for £40 plus £3.39, Best Offer disabled and it sold, no questions, 20 minutes after listing it and so far, so good. I don’t think the same would happen after the 4th February. 

Anything over a tenner and higher end clothes will become really difficult to price and there’ll be a lot of haggling. Its the £5 - £10 stuff that I suspect will become unfeasible, at least in the early days.

I know you don’t agree. It will be interesting to see how wrong I am come next month! I’m taking my listings down but not closing my account so I can still come here and talk to you lovely lot 🍿

[*devils.advocate*]

It's good to disagree - in a polite way as you have done.

That's what a discussion Board is for?

[podlingsmum2007]

For anyone who is interested this is the wording on the V site.

Buyer Protection

Learn how we calculate the Buyer Protection fee

Refund policy

You can receive a refund if your order:

• was never shipped or is lost
• arrives damaged
• is significantly not as described.

You have 2 days to submit your claim from when you’re notified that an item was delivered, even if the item never arrived. Buyers cover the cost of returning an item unless agreed otherwise. Learn more in our Refund Policy.

Secure transactions

Your money is held securely throughout the entire transaction. Payments are encrypted by our payment partner, so your money is always sent and received safely. The seller will never see your payment details.

Our support

Reach out to our support team at any time – they’re here to help.

[vintique*violet]

Thank you @valueaddedresource 

And in the US, there is an ongoing Federal Trade Commission lawsuit filed against Meta for similar antitrust/anti-competitive issues which is heading to trial in April and in which eBay was specifically brought up when business records were subpoenaed as part of the discovery process last yeaur.

oooh, that would be interesting to follow... do you know of any sites which will be covering it? 

Edit.. spelling.. 

[podlingsmum2007]

In addition to my reply above referring specifically to the buyer protection pro on the V site it states this

'Buying from Pro sellers is only allowed via the Buy now button. The Buyer Protection Pro fee automatically applies to all such orders. Buyer Protection Pro is not an insurance or a legal protection guarantee.'

This would mean the standard buyer protection would have no legal standing either so why are ebay doing this as they already have their money back guarantee. It is just a payment for nothing!

I have an account on V. I just sold a book for £1. Buyer paid £1 plus 75p plus shipping from £2.29. They chose royal mail tracked 48.

[kittycatsmum]

this is how an item i sent is currently showing on Ebay tracking, now this item has been sent, received and ive had positive feedback. Thankfully an honest buyer

If I track it via Royal mail it does show as delivered as below

this is the nightmare we face on a daily basis with the Ebay tracking, sometimes it takes weeks to update, sometimes it doesn't at all, luckily enough I could track via Royal mail but goodness knows what will hapoen when we are eventualy forced to use Simple Delivery.

[vintique*violet]

Not just simple delivery - it will affect the " funds held"... delay in the system updating delivery confirmation, is a further delay receiving your funds.