Suggestions which could improve these forums.

[vinylscot]

These forums should be a valuable resource, but they are being neutered by a combination of poor input from posters, and poor administration from eBay. I think this is why their use has been decining so noticeably in the last few months. I have a few suggestions which I believe could help things run a little better in 2024. Please feel free to add any more. The first four are small changes eBay themselves could make.

1. Stop posters from posting in different or larger fonts/colours. This can give the impression to newer members that these posters are somehow “special” and brings attention to their posts. (This is of course, what the poster wants, but there is no guarantee that the advice given will be useful - often it is not.)

2. Get rid of the silly ranking system for posters, or at least change how the ranks are assigned. Currently, some of the least reliable posters have high ranking positions, simply because they post so often. As a stopped clock is right twice a day, they do pick up “likes”, but more because they post so much, than because of the quality of their responses. (Maybe the number of “likes” should be divided by the number of posts they submit - this might stop some of their silly “look at me” behaviour.)

3. eBay employees often only become involved to dampen down conflict. I believe they must allow a little more dissent, as much of the advice being given is plainly wrong, and can considerably worsen situations which are already awkward for the original poster.

4. If eBay employees are going to get involved, they should read the WHOLE thread before jumping in with both feet. Likewise, if they are offering advice, they must make sure it is correct, and they should be able to anticipate further questions, and deal with these too. Otherwise, all they are doing is killing threads, often with irrelevant, wrong, or unhelpful comments.

...and there are things posters can do. You don’t NEED to post in every conversation. If you have nothing to add, just move on; we won’t miss you. Save it for the threads where you do have something constructive to add. If you do decide to contribute, read the whole thread; if you don't, you're possibly just cluttering the thread up with unnecessary repetitions. And if someone asks for comments from those with experience of a situation, respect that, and don’t just chip in with your guess at what SHOULD happen.

I'm sure there are others. I haven't even mentioned business/private accounts, but that obviously needs some attention, although perhaps not as much as it gets!

[btr.style]

But if it's so easy to join and be one, surely the section should be open to more?

It's not my forum so by all mean I can only comment about observation. The term mentor makes it seem like someone is somehow part of the team, perhaps part of eBay head office themselves. 

Fine, have the member to member section, but as seen with what I put before, posts are needlessly bumped because they have to have the last word. 

I.e is someone makes a post asking how to turn off GSP. A member or a few will answer it, OP says thanks, even selects the best answer. Done and dusted. The post then falls down the page (still searchable if someone has a similar question) until a mentor comes along, bumps the post up repeating the same thing that's been answered but in their own words. 

Everyone posting here uses their time to contribute. None of us have to. If a "mentor" is going to step in every time long after the question has been answered and accepted by the OP, with nothing extra to add, just repeating the same thing with different wording, why should I or anyone else waste time trying to help? 

It frequently feels like their say is the gospel facts. Almost as if answers aren't to be taken seriously unless it's posted up by someone with "mentor" under their avatar. That's my feeling on things anyway and from what I've seen, it's like they get the only say in the member to member section and so take that power over to other areas of the board. Anyone can give the most helpful answer, it doesn't need to be rubber stamped by a mentor by being repeated again.  

[btr.style]

Normally when this happens the OP is asking business related questions but have a private account. 

They'll speak openly about their business and ask things like when to list new stock for new season and so on. Yet at the end of the day, are trading illegally. Are we supposed to be compliant in helping them continue to trade illegally?

Are we supposed to answer when the next fee promo for private sellers is so that they can list a other 100 pairs of brand new trainers in their warehouse?

It just doesn't sit right with me really. Contributing towards someone breaking the law and giving them advice so they can continue to do so. 

You may think that's petty but imagine if you just paid £200 for a brand new dress or coat or something, it arrived and didn't fit. Then because one of these sellers had "no returns" due to being on a private account, you thought your only option to get your money back was to try and sell it on to someone else. 

Chances are it would be a loss too because a private individual like that would have zero experience of how to present a listing, deal with couriers and package stuff so would likely advertise it on social media for less money than they paid for it and end up out of pocket. This eBay buyer could even be a vulnerable person and struggle being out of pocket. 

It just doesn't sit right with me at all I'm afraid. People work hard for their money and shouldn't have to be out of pocket to someone who is breaking the law with their trading on a private account. 

[btr.style]

I for one mean no malice or anything bad towards anyone including the team, mentors, mods etc. 

Nothing is perosnal to anyone here. I don't know anything about any of the people here. I'll always try to help but will also be firm but fair, ultimately constructive criticism at times. 

We're all here so we clearly enjoy some things about the forum, eBay and selling. Some great ranges of opinions here, superb advice and it's a welcoming community. It's good we can praise or even give not such praise towards eBay when things go wrong, that's the community vibe. 

Staff and members all do a fantastic job and even with those autograph posts (I don't collect them myself), it's always nice to see what someone has managed to add to their collection. 

Things are good here but as ever we all want things to continuously get better. 

[theelench]

Thanks to you both, have found it!

[*vyolla*]

Thanks, you're very welcome.

[selective_distribution]

Thank you Katie. That`s a fantastic response. Great to see that you have taken notice of the `Off Topic` responders. There are 3 persons on the forum who ruin nearly every thread with their `You are a business` agenda, we all know who they are. This has the effect of alienating other responders, and especially the original OP who came to have a problem resolved and meets with a barrage of aggressive `Off Topic` replies. One of these persons will wade in with their `You are a business` nonsense, and then the other two will quickly follow stating exactly the same thing! I am amazed that these people have the time to go and search into someones account, It`s a sort of Witch Hunt! What do they get out of it? I had suggested previously that the mods remove all such `Off Topic` replies, but someone who replied above (sorry don`t remember who), has had a much better solution in suggesting that only one reply of this nature should be allowed, and the copy cat replies that follow should be removed. This seems an ideal solution. Thanks for your time Katie.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

Being retired i have plenty of time to look into things a bit deeper than some and i do notice that most of the ones complaining about those businesses who do not like other businesses masquerading as private sellers are actually the aforementioned private sellers themselves!   As a genuine private seller i think they have good reason to complain and point out that they are trading illegally.   As for off topic, as i said earlier this is supposed to be a discussion board not just an information board and discussions do go 'off track'.  Maybe the moderators should also be considering how some of these threads lately are just becoming political as well!  I could complain but why should i, it is a discussion board is'nt it!  

[papso22]

This on a 'private account'

"We have been professional book dealers for over 40 years" 

[*vyolla*]

---

@selective_distribution wrote:

This has the effect of alienating other responders, and especially the original OP who came to have a problem resolved and meets with a barrage of aggressive `Off Topic` replies. One of these persons will wade in with their `You are a business` nonsense, and then the other two will quickly follow stating exactly the same thing! I am amazed that these people have the time to go and search into someones account, It`s a sort of Witch Hunt! What do they get out of it?  

---

I can't see an issue here, I don't believe that it alienates other responders (except perhaps the ones that are sailing close to the wind themselves, I can appreciate that a seller who should be trading on a business account but knowingly chooses not to might then be a little bit squeamish).

It doesn't matter if advice is repeated, it merely endorses a point. One responder could be wrong, it's unlkely that 3 would be if they're all saying the same thing.

Personally, I'd want to know if I'm trading on the wrong account. Business sellers can offset lots of expenses against any tax they may need to pay, plus HMRC will be watching them now so it's in their best interest to get their house in order. 

As regards time to take a look, it takes about a minute to work out if a seller should be operating on a private or business account. 

What do responders get out of it: Helping eBay sellers trade correctly and informing them of issues they may be unaware of which could create a problem for them further down the line.

[btr.style]

I'm sure I'm 1 of those 3. 

What it comes down to is like I put before. It's not off topic at all. Someone comes here trading illegally, selling for profit on a private account (I'm afraid, that's what you appear to be doing, 1000+ items listed, a record shop owner, which is why you have a gripe with it being pointed out). They'll ask business related questions even though they are trading illegally (at the very least in breach of distance selling laws by not providing their full name, address and contact details which can only be done on a business account). 

Are we supposed to help people trading illegally? Would you give advice to someone on how to fiddle their taxes? How to deceive or diddle customers? No? In the eyes of trading standards, trading on a private account is no different. 

I can understand if someone of that criteria comes here asking about buying on eBay, joins in with some of the fun topics and so on. Yet from what I can see, their illegal trading status is pointed out when they are asking business related questions and that makes it completely on topic. 

If someone wants to be in business, fine, well done, but if trading illegally (which is no doubt to have 1000 free listings a month, the bi weekly fee promo and lower fees overall), I don't see why they should be helped to continue breaking the law. 

[vikkipollardanddafyddthomas]

This on a 'private account'

"We have been professional book dealers for over 40 years" 

and on each of their 678 record listings they state "We have been professional record dealers for over 40 years"

[cobwebcottage]

I am astounded that you have the nerve to comment on the business/private debate when you are a professional record dealer selling on a private account (which is not so professional).

Not only are you laughing in the face of Ebay by not paying the correct fees and probably abusing the promo's, you are insulting professional sellers as well as the buyers. I will repeat myself by saying that I care and comment on these posts because the reputation of sellers affects every person using this site and they should be registered correctly.

[vinylscot]

It's notable that, in her otherwise pretty comprehensive contribution, katie@eBay made no mention of this hot potato, undoubtedly the most talked-about topic on these boards, worming its way into almost every thread. Not even a kiddie-on "we take these situations very seriously". Yet another indication, that although many on here have a bee in their bonnet about it, eBay couldn't care less.

[selective_distribution]

Indeed this illustrates my exact point! A reply, from a person who feels that it is fine to go into another sellers personal account with the specific intention of reporting them! If you really must know ( and I have mentioned this before), I owned both a physical Book shop and a Record shop for many years, but now that I have RETIRED I indulge myself by selling some items on ebay. I hardly think that the few items I sell would constitute anyone`s idea of a Business. But I have to remark that what I sell is MY `Business`. This sort of a reply to a new Op coming to the forum for advice, is both agressive and intrusive, and is probally the reason that there are so few people using the forum.

[litp*records]

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@btr.style wrote:

Normally when this happens the OP is asking business related questions but have a private account. 

They'll speak openly about their business and ask things like when to list new stock for new season and so on. Yet at the end of the day, are trading illegally. Are we supposed to be compliant in helping them continue to trade illegally?

Are we supposed to answer when the next fee promo for private sellers is so that they can list a other 100 pairs of brand new trainers in their warehouse?

It just doesn't sit right with me really. Contributing towards someone breaking the law and giving them advice so they can continue to do so. 

You may think that's petty but imagine if you just paid £200 for a brand new dress or coat or something, it arrived and didn't fit. Then because one of these sellers had "no returns" due to being on a private account, you thought your only option to get your money back was to try and sell it on to someone else. 

Chances are it would be a loss too because a private individual like that would have zero experience of how to present a listing, deal with couriers and package stuff so would likely advertise it on social media for less money than they paid for it and end up out of pocket. This eBay buyer could even be a vulnerable person and struggle being out of pocket. 

It just doesn't sit right with me at all I'm afraid. People work hard for their money and shouldn't have to be out of pocket to someone who is breaking the law with their trading on a private account. 

---

I agree totally with all of that.  However let's give users the benefit of the doubt as they may not realise they need a business account here- the first option should be to educate them on how they go about doing that.

IMO there is nothing wrong with users posting "You need to be registered for a business account" and provide the relevant Ebay link.  That is not derailing as some would claim, but simply educating and helping those sellers comply with Ebay's rules as well as the law.

Perhaps my suggestion for this forum would be to indicate whether the user who is posting is either a Private or Business account holder.  And perhaps restrict the Business discussion forum only for Business users, to avoid confusion.

[litp*records]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

Being retired i have plenty of time to look into things a bit deeper than some and i do notice that most of the ones complaining about those businesses who do not like other businesses masquerading as private sellers are actually the aforementioned private sellers themselves!   As a genuine private seller i think they have good reason to complain and point out that they are trading illegally.   As for off topic, as i said earlier this is supposed to be a discussion board not just an information board and discussions do go 'off track'.  Maybe the moderators should also be considering how some of these threads lately are just becoming political as well!  I could complain but why should i, it is a discussion board is'nt it!  

---

Bear in mind that users don't always post from their main or business account.  You're allowed to have 1 private account and multiple business accounts (last time I checked anyway). 

Likewise you're allowed to sell personal possessions on private account whilst also running a business account.  Though, I can understand it's very tempting in such a situation to move your items over to the account that's getting 80% off fees...

[btr.style]

1) eBay listing pages and profiles are public. There is nothing private about eBay accounts. You advertise on a platform that anyone can search and find items. Anyone can view anyone's listings. 

2) 1000+ items isn't 'some' or 'few'. Your listings are business orientated.

3) what you sell constitutes everyone's idea of a business. 'professionally cleaned', many mentions of 'we' not 'I'. 

4) what you sell isn't your business. It's public. Anyone can scroll down your page and click "sold items" to see what's been sold. 

5) the forum is a very busy place. It's busier than ever. 

I've already said my piece so I'll be stepping out after this. Trading in this way is against the law, it affects buyer confidence and it puts legally trading businesses at risk as private account businesses can undercut them due to paying less fees. 

The only thing that is your private business is whether you are trading legally or not. That is for you to sort, nobody can do it for you. Just don't expect other people to help someone continue to trade illegally. 

[vinylscot]

@selective_distribution   If you have retired, stop claiming to be professional record/book sellers. Stop using "we" as your pronoun, if you really mean "I". You can still be a business seller, and you certainly appear to be one, even if you  have "retired". There is plenty more I could add. Please look at how eBay defines pivate/business sellers for their purposes, and please acquaint yourself with your legal responsibilities.

[katie@ebay]

Hi everyone,

Just to answer in relation to the Private to Business account topic. I agree it can be helpful to notify someone that they may be registered on the wrong account. As it has been mentioned, they may not be aware.

From that point on I would ask that the community guidelines are followed, this includes off-topic and being respectful. Our teams work on this in the background to ensure that accounts that need to be moved are upgraded. This is a public platform, so it would be inappropriate for me to discuss individual members accounts. 

I have also been sending on feedback from you all about the help page related to this and the reporting process. I am unable to comment further on this, but did want to address it as much as I could here.

To add, this thread is in relation to community feedback and how the forums could be improved. I do not want this thread to be derailed into a debate about private and business. Please keep this in mind. 

Thanks,

Katie 

[litp*records]

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@*vyolla* wrote:

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@selective_distribution wrote:

This has the effect of alienating other responders, and especially the original OP who came to have a problem resolved and meets with a barrage of aggressive `Off Topic` replies. One of these persons will wade in with their `You are a business` nonsense, and then the other two will quickly follow stating exactly the same thing! I am amazed that these people have the time to go and search into someones account, It`s a sort of Witch Hunt! What do they get out of it?  

---

I can't see an issue here, I don't believe that it alienates other responders (except perhaps the ones that are sailing close to the wind themselves, I can appreciate that a seller who should be trading on a business account but knowingly chooses not to might then be a little bit squeamish).

It doesn't matter if advice is repeated, it merely endorses a point. One responder could be wrong, it's unlkely that 3 would be if they're all saying the same thing.

Personally, I'd want to know if I'm trading on the wrong account. Business sellers can offset lots of expenses against any tax they may need to pay, plus HMRC will be watching them now so it's in their best interest to get their house in order. 

As regards time to take a look, it takes about a minute to work out if a seller should be operating on a private or business account. 

What do responders get out of it: Helping eBay sellers trade correctly and informing them of issues they may be unaware of which could create a problem for them further down the line.

---

Indeed.  You'd want someone to tell you if you were driving on the wrong side of the road by accident, wouldn't you.  They needn't worry about feelings being hurt.