'Simple Delivery' failed, now a test case - worried

[richardb196]

Private Seller here, I sold a gold sovereign for £590 on ebay and was forced to use "Simple Delivery" as you all know. Both ebay and RM tracking show it as delivered, RM say they left it in a safe place and uploaded a photo. Seller says package has gone "missing" and he will raise a case with ebay!

I see some help pages on ebay saying I am covered for the loss but another page says gold is in the excluded list for 'Simple Delivery' even though they do not offer any other postal service.

Who is going to end up eating the loss I wonder?

Cheers

Rich

[roger_roger_over_and_nowt]

Makes me sad to see such.....

[4_bathrooms]

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@richardb196 wrote:

ebay emailed me again -

"Richard, I would like to appreciate your efforts in providing us the proof of delivery showing the item has been delivered to the buyer's address. We are now one step closer in releasing your funds, all we need now is a document from Royal Mail of a signature confirmation that the item was delivered to the buyer's address."

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It's times like this you need to point eBay's own published policy out to them. Under eBay's signature confirmation policy it states:

"Signature confirmation is not required when posting items using Simple Delivery. However, the full value of the item is covered against loss or damage in transit, so you're fully protected if your buyer reports an item not received."

The rep is obviously treating this as a standard Money Back Guarantee case where a signature would be required. If you still have the opportunity to respond I suggest pointing the above out.

[notstopbuying]

This is not looking good.... If eBay's left hand, knew what their right hand was doing...... Then there would be no need to even mention the need for a signature, because ebay should know there was no option for a signature as it was sent via "Simple-Delivery"! 

Oh dear, this is going to drag on.... But the big question is.. Why is eBay going against their own terms and conditions of Simple delivery? Why is the seller even been involved in something that..... "Simple delivery" clearly states is not a seller issue... Because it was sent via "Simple delivery"

Richard please keep us all updated. 

[lucy_farmer]

'The rep is obviously treating this as a standard Money Back Guarantee case where a signature would be required. If you still have the opportunity to respond I suggest pointing the above out.'

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Ebay *would* be treating this case as a standard MBG case if they have decided that gold is indeed 'excluded from Simple Delivery'.

In which case the seller loses out.

If the case is treated as S.D. (i.e. covered , as ebay say they will do) , will the fact that it has been 'marked as delivered' mean the buyer  loses out?

(even if this particular buyer *may* be pulling a fast one, obviously this isn't always going to be the case..)

I actually have got 'bated breath' here! 

[notstopbuying]

Ebay do detail in their "Restricted or Prohibited items" that 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/posting-items/setting-postage-options/simple-delivery?id=5575

"Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold

Are not covered and recommend checking these policies and the guidance below before you print your Simple Delivery label and before you bring your parcel to the drop-off location."

So if that is the case, why was simple delivery the option given to the seller within the listing process ?

[thevintagemart]

My view is that if the seller or the buyer are out of pocket in this case then Simple Delivery is a failure and not fit for purpose.

There are too many holes to fall into as a seller. 

It the outcome is not satisfactory then am sure a good consumer journalist such as Martin Lewis would be interested in looking into it. 

[dancewithadingo]

Good Afternoon Richard

Thanks for the update. I am confident that eBay will 'come to the party' very soon and the case will be resolved in your favour.

If not then you have two strong cards to play.  

Good luck.

Dingo

[4_bathrooms]

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@notstopbuying wrote:

So if that is the case, why was simple delivery the option given to the seller within the listing process ?

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Because it was the only option eBay made available to the OP.

According to eBay's own guidance the following items are ineligible so "Simple" Delivery will not be available as an option:

Items weighing over 20kg, that are more than 120cm in length or that are more than 245cm³ in volume.

The OP's package did not exceed any of those specifications.

Also, "Simple" Delivery is optional for the following items in certain categories (including Coins):

£10 or less (sans-BPF) and letter-sized.

The OP's item sold for more than £10.00 so there was no option to opt-out of SD.

I believe the OP had no choice but to use "Simple" Delivery as that was the only delivery method eBay made available to them.

[dls-online]

I'll be honest, I'm mostly commenting on here so I can be notified of any further developments as this is an exteremly important thread now. As someone said earlier, this appears to be a true test case to set the benchmark to understand if eBay will stand by their claims or not.

Should Richard not receive a full and timely refund from eBay, then I will be unable to utilise Simple Delivery with any future sales as it will be proven to not be fit for purpose. Buyers and Sellers need assurance that the items being bought/sold will be covered during transit. If ebay fails here, then buying and selling on ebay will have become a whole lot riskier for both buyer and seller!

A true test case indeed.

[4_bathrooms]

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@dls-online wrote:

As someone said earlier, this appears to be a true test case to set the benchmark to understand if eBay will stand by their claims or not.

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It is more a test to see which part of their own published guidance/policy eBay will choose to follow.

The problem - as I see it - is any private seller sending anything that is valued at more than £10.00 that contains any precious metal, gems, coins, currency, stamps or is a watch or jewellery (that is not eligible for eBay's Authenticity Guarantee) is being told their item is not allowed to be sent via "Simple" Delivery. However, SD is the only delivery method eBay makes available for such items!

eBay desperately needs to rethink how SD works. I really can't see how they can proscribe their own delivery service for certain items then make it the only delivery service that is available for them...

[dls-online]

Absolutely...and so the only option ebay surely have with their current badly considered set up, is to provide a full and timely refund in such a case. Otherwise they could lose any remaining credability they have left (i.e. forcing sellers to use a service without any cover or protection).

[notstopbuying]

Plus, can the seller pick the simple delivery option, then choose to send instead by Special delivery and then update the tracking number on the sale to the Special delivery option? I am sure I read somewhere, that the tracking number cannot be updated to a different number? 

[dls-online]

I can confirm the tracking number can be updated by yourself manually after the sale. I did that this afternoon on an item I sold where I'm not using Simple Delivery because of the uncertainty with using it (the item is electrical).

So I took the buyer's address from the SD label I was forced to purchase, I sorted out my own postage via Royal Mail, I updated the tracking, and the ebay custmer services person emailed me this link to claim back the cost of the unused SD postage label:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/claims/simple-delivery/refund/seller

[notstopbuying]

Thank you for that, I guess in those instances, where it might be best to change the postage option, is perhaps to use the "seller pays" for postage option, then the refund would come back to the seller within 30 days. 

At least it is one way to by pass Simple delivery for expensive items, or items, that will not fit through the letter box. 

[lucy_farmer]

'Plus, can the seller pick the simple delivery option, then choose to send instead by Special delivery and then update the tracking number on the sale to the Special delivery option? I am sure I read somewhere, that the tracking number cannot be updated to a different number? '

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Yes, the only way around S.D is 'clunky'.

List as 'seller pays postage' .

Put the cost of Special on the item price (minus the cost of the S.D. label- after all you will eventually get that back)

Download the label to get the address, but don't use it.

'Request' a refund from the unused label (takes about 30 days?)

Still no ability to put your Special tracking number in , so you sit back and wait for your sale money for 14 days.

But if the parcel goes missing you've got the shield of Special Delivery. RM take great care of specials.....

[lucy_farmer]

'I can confirm the tracking number can be updated by yourself manually after the sale. I did that this afternoon on an item I sold....'

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Ah! It does work! 😁 brilliant...... so no waiting for 14 days.

Is it easy to do? I'm hoping you didn't have to get CS involved to do it?

[dls-online]

Hi Lucy Farmer - just to confirm - you can amend the tracking number yourself (unless "special tracking" is different to normal tracking????). I did that this afternoon. It automatically inserted the Simple Delivery tracking number, and Customer Services walked me through how you can manually amend the tracking number to show the correct one.

Any yes, you need to claim back the cost for the unused SD postage label within 14 days via teh above form, or you lose that as well.

I will be undertaking this process for every sale going forward, as SD is overpriced and cannot be trusted.

[notstopbuying]

Do you need to request the label refund or is it automatically refunded after 30 days? 

[lucy_farmer]

'is perhaps to use the "seller pays" for postage option, then the refund would come back to the seller within 30 days. '

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The refund is not 'automatically' refunded for a seller though. (it is when a buyer pays for an unused S.D. label)

A seller has to request the refund via the link from @dls-online  has put up there   😁

(I have no idea if ebay will end up getting a bit sniffy if sellers continually do this to get around S.D. though. They may start making this, already clunky, get-out even more awkward)

[dls-online]

You need to request it within 14 days of purchasing the SD label or they won't refund. You request the refund here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/claims/simple-delivery/refund/seller