'Simple Delivery' failed, now a test case - worried

[richardb196]

Private Seller here, I sold a gold sovereign for £590 on ebay and was forced to use "Simple Delivery" as you all know. Both ebay and RM tracking show it as delivered, RM say they left it in a safe place and uploaded a photo. Seller says package has gone "missing" and he will raise a case with ebay!

I see some help pages on ebay saying I am covered for the loss but another page says gold is in the excluded list for 'Simple Delivery' even though they do not offer any other postal service.

Who is going to end up eating the loss I wonder?

Cheers

Rich

[theelench]

SD is indefensible simply because a month after its introduction, it still doesn't work and shows no sign that it will in the near future.

I wouldn't sell anything while there is the slightest possibility that ebay might decide to send the seller an evri label.  Even if the buyer and I don't want to use them.

Why does ebay still persist in penalising buyers with higher prices (and sellers who understand their buyers by effectively increasing their prices) if they don't want to use evri?

Having made those bad decisions ebay then tries to conceal the delivery company, hiding it behind 'Standard' or 'Express'  instead of being honest and above board about who will deliver.

As either buyer or seller I'm not going to get involved in a transaction that involves a 'pig in a poke'.

As a seller I value my reputation and don't want bad FB along the lines of "I paid for RM delivery.  The item was delivered BROKEN by evri.  DO NOT USE THIS SELLER." 

As a buyer I won't be overcharged to use the carrier of my choice.

Neither will I be bothering to check with every seller which delivery company they hope to be using when even they can't guarantee that ebay won't change it anyway.

It's MY money or MY goods and I decide what to do with them.

[yamaha_studio1]

Having reviewed the T&Cs, Gold is prohibited from using Simple Delivery as per below clause:

Restricted or prohibited items

The following items aren't allowed to be posted with Simple Delivery:

• Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold

Ebay should completely remove the SD option on the items/categories above. 

[lucy_farmer]

'Ebay should completely remove the SD option on the items/categories above'

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you read the whole 'restricted list', you will see the many many items on it.

Some of the restrictions are on items that simply *contain* parts that are made of glass (or a hundred-and-one other substances)

I think it'd be impossible for ebay to remove all these things from the S.D. process. It would render S.D. rather pointlessly hollow.

We are waiting for a simple answer from ebay : will they cover these items under S.D.?

If yes, brilliant!

If no, they'll have to admit to not providing the option of an insured postal service (i.e. special delivery) under the Simple Delivery system and 'restricted list' things being sent at the seller's own risk.

[papso22]

They could at least remove it from the obviously excluded sub categories. 

[yamaha_studio1]

"We are waiting for a simple answer from ebay : will they cover these items under S.D.?"

This should be reflected in T&Cs rather than stating in some chat comms etc.

[lucy_farmer]

'This should be reflected in T&Cs rather than stating in some chat comms etc.'

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Yes it should.  In plain English. 

(That's what I've been nagging about since sometime in Feb..)

[theelench]

IMO SD should never have been rolled out until the exclusions were all in black and white and crystal clear.

If ebay is now directing how private sellers can and cannot get their goods delivered they should be entitled to know exactly what they're paying for and what is not included in the fee.

Ebay saying that goods must comply with ebay's T&Cs and vaguely mention that the carriers T&Cs also come into the equation in some unspecified way isn't IMO good enough.

We hear a lot on here about sellers not giving buyers their statutory rights.  Ebay has now taken over from sellers in providing delivery services, it's charging for this and not defining what it's selling.

[4_bathrooms]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

If no, they'll have to admit to not providing the option of an insured postal service (i.e. special delivery) under the Simple Delivery system and 'restricted list' things being sent at the seller's own risk.

---

The problem is eBay states "Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold" are not allowed to be sent with "Simple" Delivery. However, despite the item being in a "valuables" category (i.e. Coins) and having default item specifics like "Fineness" and "Total Precious Metal Content" defined - which could only apply to something containing a precious metal - the item was automatically opted-in to "Simple" Delivery.

The other way of looking at it is the item was delivered; i.e. it wasn't lost or damaged in transit therefore it is not a "Simple" Delivery issue but a standard Money Back Guarantee claim. However, eBay have a gotcha here as well - the item sold for over £450 and a signature was not obtained on delivery. Again, this is entirely eBay's fault as the item was automatically opted-in to a delivery service that does not provide a signature on delivery.

If eBay decides the OP is responsible for the refund I can't see how such a decision could be justified on the grounds the OP is a consumer and would ultimately be getting penalised for using a service they were automatically opted-in to. I'm pretty sure the Financial Ombudsman Service would take the same view.

[lucy_farmer]

'......the item was automatically opted-in to "Simple" Delivery.'

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Back in about March (when S.D. was still optional for everybody) I set up a trial listing for a 'restricted list' item, just to see how it worked.

Not only was it not kept out of S.D., a pop-up box appeared saying that S.D. was recommended for this item.

If ebay are covering these items they need to say so; if they're not,  they have to stop throwing the seller under the bus.....

[sml192]

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@4_bathrooms wrote

The problem is eBay states "Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold" are not allowed to be sent with "Simple" Delivery. However, despite the item being in a "valuables" category (i.e. Coins) and having default item specifics like "Fineness" and "Total Precious Metal Content" defined - which could only apply to something containing a precious metal - the item was automatically opted-in to "Simple" Delivery.

The other way of looking at it is the item was delivered; i.e. it wasn't lost or damaged in transit therefore it is not a "Simple" Delivery issue but a standard Money Back Guarantee claim. However, eBay have a gotcha here as well - the item sold for over £450 and a signature was not obtained on delivery. Again, this is entirely eBay's fault as the item was automatically opted-in to a delivery service that does not provide a signature on delivery.

Ordinarily, for items over £450 a signature would be required but that doesn't apply to items sent using Simple Delivery as outlined in eBay's 'Signature Confirmation Policy' which eBay provides a link to in the Money Back Guarantee:

'Requirements for sellers when posting orders

In order to be protected if a buyer reports that they didn't receive an item or open a payment dispute, signature confirmation is required when the order total is equal to or greater than the signature confirmation threshold for the site/currency of checkout.'

'Signature confirmation is not required when posting items using Simple Delivery. However, the full value of the item is covered against loss or damage in transit, so you're fully protected if your buyer reports an item not received.'

[4_bathrooms]

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@sml192 wrote:

'Signature confirmation is not required when posting items using Simple Delivery. However, the full value of the item is covered against loss or damage in transit, so you're fully protected if your buyer reports an item not received.'

---

Thanks; I missed that. The interesting thing in this case is the item wasn't lost or damaged in transit; the buyer reported the item wasn't received after the carrier obtained a delivery scan.

Hopefully @richardb196 will come back and provide an update. As mentioned previously I'm very interested in reading what eBay decides in this case!

[daveydempsey]

SD is not required for coins.

Which listings are not required to use Simple Delivery?

Starting from 15 April, Simple Delivery will be the only delivery method available for private sellers when posting eligible items. Simple Delivery will be optional for items priced £10 and under, letter-sized, and in certain sub-categories* within the following areas:

• Antiques (e.g., Maps)
• Art (e.g., Photographs)
• Baby (e.g., Car Window Signs & Decals)
• Books, Comics & Magazines (e.g., Bookmarks)
• Business, Office & Industrial (e.g., Office Supplies & Stationary, Adhesive Tapes)
• Cameras & Photography (e.g.,Memory Cards, Drone Accessories)
• Clothes, Shoes & Accessories (e.g., Hair Accessories, Wallets)
• Coins
• Collectables (e.g., Trading Cards, Card Games, Badges & Patches, Postcards)
• Computers/Tablets & Networking (e.g., Cables & Connectors, Components & Parts)
• Crafts (e.g., Scrapbooking, Beads)
• Dolls & Bears (e.g., Clothing & Accessories)
• Events Tickets
• Everything Else (e.g., Information Services, Grave Ornaments & Memorials)
• Films & TV (e.g., DVDs, Fridge Magnets)
• Garden & Patio (e.g., Seeds & Bulbs)
• Health & Beauty (e.g., Nail Art, Temporary Tattoos)
• Home, Furniture & DIY (e.g., Cards & Invitations, Ornaments)
• Jewellery & Watches (e.g., Bracelets & Charms)
• Mobile Phones & Communication (e.g., Cables, SIM Cards)
• Music (e.g., CDs, Memorabilia Stickers)
• Musical Instruments & DJ Equipment (e.g., Parts & Accessories)
• Pet Supplies (e.g., Tags & Charms, Collars)
• Sound & Vision (e.g., Batteries, Turntable Parts)
• Sporting Goods (e.g., Tennis Grips)
• Sports Memorabilia (e.g., Trading Cards, Pins, Magnets)
• Stamps
• Toys & Games (e.g.,. LEGO ® Building Toys, Card Games)
• Vehicle Parts & Accessories (e.g., Exterior Decals & Vinyls, Repair Manuals)
• Video Games
• Wholesale & Job Lots (e.g., Greeting Cards & Stationery

[notstopbuying]

I have messaged Richard via his ebay account, hopefully he will update us soon. 

[lucy_farmer]

'S.D. is  not required for coins'

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But only if they sell for under a tenner, I thought?  (and fitted into a bog-standard envelope)

The OP's coin was gold and sold for £590.00

[sml192]

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@daveydempsey wrote:

SD is not required for coins.

---

That only applies if they are £10 or less and letter sized though. 

[yamaha_studio1]

@sml192 

This is wrong please refer to the actual T&Cs for SD. The OP's item should never have the option for SD see below.

Restricted or prohibited items

The following items aren't allowed to be posted with Simple Delivery:

• Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold

[4_bathrooms]

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@yamaha_studio1 wrote:

@sml192 

This is wrong please refer to the actual T&Cs for SD. The OP's item should never have the option for SD see below.

Restricted or prohibited items

The following items aren't allowed to be posted with Simple Delivery:

• Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold

---

The guidance where "Simple" Delivery becomes optional states:

"Simple Delivery will be optional for items priced £10 and under, letter-sized, and in certain sub-categories"

It is an "and" and not an "or"; i.e. all of those conditions must be met.

I have no idea if the OP had the option of choosing their own delivery method or not. In any case their item was automatically enrolled into "Simple" Delivery despite there being default item specifics indicating the item contained precious metal. If an item is not allowed (eBay's phrasing) to be sent via "Simple" Delivery then SD should not be an option at all; much less an option that is automatically enrolled into requiring a conscious action by the seller to opt-out of.

[richardb196]

ebay customer services have just emailed me saying a decision is imminent and asking for my input.

I gave them chapter and verse about how 'simple delivery' was the only postage option available to me, I uploaded the pic from Royal Mail tracking showing they left the parcel in an unsafe place, I pointed out the email I received earlier from customer services that assured me I was covered in the event of a lost package.

I should have to outcome soon.

[notstopbuying]

Your sale, is a real benchmark for how well eBay will stand by their Simple delivery policy... IMHO though, if simple delivery had a signed for option, then the situation would not of happened. 

[richardb196]

ebay emailed me again -

"Richard, I would like to appreciate your efforts in providing us the proof of delivery showing the item has been delivered to the buyer's address. We are now one step closer in releasing your funds, all we need now is a document from Royal Mail of a signature confirmation that the item was delivered to the buyer's address."

I answered -

"Royal Mail left the item in a unsafe place, they did not obtain a signature. This can be seen in the photo Royal Mail uploaded to the tracking information, I have attached the photo to this email.

If there was a signature then the item would have been delivered and the buyer would not have made an 'item not received' claim and we would not be having this conversation.

It is now time for you to live up to the commitment you have made to me as a seller under the term of 'simple delivery' and release the funds for the sale into my account."

we will see