Private Seller - Minimum Selling Price is £1.75+ ?

[ankocat]

Hello, I recently returned to eBay to sell off the doubles of my card collection but I've ran into a few issues.

One of which is, most of my cards aren't very valuable so, as an example one is going for around £1.45 on ebay currently. However, as I can only input £0.99 as the lowest price, due to the Buyer Protection Fee being added to the listing price, I can only sell it for £1.75+.

Plus, added to this if I am actually able to sell the item and offer free shipping too, meaning I lose £0.85 on the £0.99 if only 1 is sold.

How is this fair?

[action_man]

Your original post makes perfect sense. The core point is that low value items used to be possible to sell on eBay because you could set the price low and the fees were relatively low. It was also possible to just about clear those 99p items on 70% off listing fee days. But since the addition of the Buyer's Protection Fee it has made those low value items practically double in price over night and that makes it almost impossible to sell. So, people with lots of cheap postcards, stamps, etc. are now suddenly left with items they cannot sell.

That's it. 

Then along come the people muddying the waters with how that relates to business sellers and before you know it your original point has disappeared under a sea of squabbling.

You also get the people who say you need to become a business, which is a ludicrous suggestion.

You also get the people who say you just need to drop your prices. But if you did that, you'd be paying someone to take your item away, because the numbers literally don't stack up.

Unfortunately, the reality is that eBay has changed and those of us who have a lot of cheap items have been effectively swept aside with the introduction of the Buyer's Protection fee.

I think unless you're in this position, other people are going to find it difficult to understand.

Your last question was "How is this fair?" Well, eBay now only cares about the ones who make the most money for them. They've shifted the goalposts of what is and what isn't workable. In the past you could just about make 99p items work, but you can't now, because of the 75p + 4%. Before the seller's fee was lower. Now it's been transported across to a buyer's fee, it has created a price hike on those items and they are now rendered effectively obsolete. If this had happened gradually over time with plenty of warning then that would have been fair. But, the way it has been done is what isn't fair.

It's taken me a couple of months to really see this clearly, but the bottom line is that eBay is no longer a marketplace for private sellers selling cheap items. But, as it's free to sell, we need to quit whining and spend hours listing things and end up with a few pennies in 14 days time.

And if we don't like it - LEAVE!

I chose to leave. I stopped buying and selling in January. Since then I have been reading the forum and Trustpilot and similar sites, because I just couldn't believe how eBay has changed so much and thought that maybe if enough people were bothered that eBay might actually listen (how naive I have been). As time goes on I am discovering that it's pointless saying anything. So, I've made this post purely for you and anyone who is staggering around in the mental darkness. Hopefully, it will make things a bit clearer.

Heaven 17 had a song back in the day called "Crushed By The Wheels Of Industry". We've just been crushed by the wheels of eBay.

For anyone ready to come at me with the "I thought you were leaving" line. Yes, I am. Sometimes before we head for our grave, we let out a few last gasps and these are mine.

[dch2112011]

I think you missed entirely the point of the post - that was that a seller has a choice - if you own an item for a long time and want to profit then you can sell at a high price or keep it - this is not what a private account is designed for  - 

If you want to get rid of an item owned for a long time because you no longer need or want it and your primary concern is to get rid - then you will either send it to landfill or get rid of it quickly at any price because it has no costs associated with it - this is what the private account is designed for.

You then have to think that somebody trying to profit from an item, did they buy it to keep it and sell at a later date for a profit and if so is this trading ? 

Many private sellers list thousands of items for years and still do not sell, you could surmise that they are not interested in decluttering or selling unwanted used items but are more interested in maximising profits and therefore are by definition trading even though they own the items !

You need to do a little bit more research than the one reference - ask yourself how HMRC determine what is a personal used item - put simply if I buy 1000 old postcards today and put them up for sale tomorrow  would that not make every seller a seller of personal items regardless of whether they were a business or not ?  How do you think HMRC determine whether a seller is trading or not ? What are the benchmarks ? You need to dig deeper !

[susapric-68]

Welcome back again

[lucy_farmer]

'Welcome back again'

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Hmmm ....'he got crushed by the wheels'. ...for no readily apparent reason!

[eastern_standard_time]

Please don't lecture me on research and only listing one reference when you have cited precisely none.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions that you are yet another forum user spouting ill-informed opinions dressed up as facts.

[johnwash1]

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@suelel1968 wrote:

I agree with you on all fronts really.

Of course Private sellers look at other sellers prices a price to compete and make a sale for a good price.

Of course you don't need to be a business to sell personal items.

Batches or joblots rarely sell for a decent price, so not really a good way forward.

The BPF is anti low priced items. I personally think this is by design as low priced listings just clutter up the site.

..

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They certainly do.  In particular all that low priced tat from China that ebay seems delighted to encourage.  Along with their listings "from 99p to £27" that have a 99p one inch sample of tape, to fool you into thinking they may be selling cheaper than others.

Irrelevant listings don't clutter a site, that's why sites have search functions.  Ah, search functions that work?  Now we're into a whole new discussion.  😞

[ankocat]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

It amazes me how some private account holders want to act as a business but without the costs

think that it is ok to undercut legitimate businesses with the same stock and cry foul when the limitations of the account they choose stops them from doing so,

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I'm not acting as a business. 
I didn't CHOOSE this account, it's the same account I've had since 2005 and I paid fees when selling up until this point. 
So if I break this unwritten rule about charging less than a ✨legitimate business✨ I should what? put the price up to £5? never sell it in a million years? just leave it up there for no reason?

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@dch2112011 wrote:

In this thread the op is selling exactly the same range of repeat products as a registered business yet has chosen an account which gives them zero costs - it's free to sell !

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I haven't chosen anything - eBay changed it's policies.
It's not free at all, like others like susapric-68 have said in the thread (can't reply to everyone sorry) I'm actually entering £1.17 on the DJ K.K. card to get it to £2 which the other sellers are selling at, and eBay is pushing it up to £1.94 as their percentages seem to be totally random at times. I haven't checked but I'm probably not the cheapest price on eBay either.
And once again £1.17 - £0.85 = £.032

And I previously mentioned I may be forced to switch to a business account but is in no way fair.
I'm not breaking HRMC rules, I'm not even making any significant money. I just wanted to sell some possessions to make some money and all I've gotten is aggressive replies accusing me of being a cheat or some kind of tax thief or all sorts of things I've never done.

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@dch2112011 wrote:

The items are cheap and looking at the many businesses selling them they are readily obtainable wholesale for around the 5p to 10p mark  maybe even less - this creates the market price.

A business may buy in tens or hundreds of thousands of these throw away cheap items and relies on volume for their profit or even uses them to enhance their use of the ebay account

Incorrect, they are not throwaway cheap items, the fake reprints might be but it was very hard to even buy these Amiibo cards as a consumer when they were actually on sale. The market price is decided by the popular characters or rarer cards for finishing collections. For instance I have one card of a sheep that's going for £30+

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@dch2112011 wrote:

The OP states they are just selling items surplus to requirements  purchased as duplicates from the branded outlets at no doubt a premium price.

Some may speculate that buying two of everything could be construed as buying to trade  or it could be by buying in random packs two or more of a similar item were obtained ?

Either way by selling the unwanted duplicates it is trading ! It may not be trading in the terms of a business but it is still trading as is swopping items  or offering a service for payment in kind.

As you even said yourself, you buy a pack that has a random assortment of cards in it, you don't know what's in it & there's a good chance you end up with doubles, so you buy more packs.
You can't buy single cards from the official outlets, only packs, which is what I did.
You can accuse me of "buying two of everything to trade" but lol honestly...

Any eBay transaction is trading in that case

I won't bother answering the rest of the accusations
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To the sensible people who replied, yes business account seems to be the way to go unfortunately.
I was considering actually doing this anyway if these items sold well and I could actually sustain selling more things over time, but the experience hasn't been great so far and this honestly feels forced onto me.

I do still believe the £1.75+ punishes private sellers too much as businesses can undercut them forever, for example a lot of Pokémon cards cost 1 or 2 pounds and they'll just end up on competitors sites like Cardmarket.

[ankocat]

I mean I thought I was doing the right thing by making 1 multi listing instead of 87 lol

[susapric-68]

Should not look at it as being forced too, it's simple economics. your £1.17 nets you 32p, as a business you pay 36p with VAT to list that series once a month and if most are under £10 get yourself on "Low Cost Items - Final Value Fees Activated 5p + 15% FVF per order" and you would pay 42p on the £1.95 the buyer has to pay for you to get £1.17. So £1.95 - 42p = £1.53 to you after FVF and VAT to Ebay making your cut after postage 68p. You pay off the 1 months listing fee on the first sale plus you can add multi buy to your listing so buyers can get a discount if they want to buy more than 1. Another thing is money made today would be available to take out tomorrow so no 14 day wait. Thing to ask yourself is would you list for £1.17 and make 32p if you did not pass over the BPF to buyers or would you list at £1.95 to undercut and make more

 

[dch2112011]

You can try and argue the opposite of reality if it makes you think you are correct but simply adding a date of 2005 and saying you did not choose to open a private account begs the question :

Who did force you or chose for you to open the account in 2005 ?

You have the choice to keep the account or close it but you don't have the choice to change it to suit yourself !

You cannot harp back to a world 20 years ago and expect the world to have stood still because you personally feel it will be more advantageous to trade in 2025 with the selling conditions from 2005.

This is at best wishful thinking !

The items you sell are cheap and disposable - Why do you think brand holders only sell packs ?

So that a buyer can split them and dispose of the ones they don't want or  because they are so cheap that it is not viable to sell them individually ?

So some individuals believe the brand owners are wrong and decide to sell the ones that are not wanted.

When they realise it really isn't viable they complain ebay are not covering their costs to do so - or worse they believe all the other sellers should pay their costs so they can make selling one cheap item viable for them ! 

[susapric-68]

Would just get all the ones playing the system move over to the Free to sell. seen some dvd/cd private sellers on here that must have 3 houses full of stuff going by listings and sales. The moment eBay introduced BPF we had posts on how to avoid it until eBay changed T&C to make it against an offence

[ankocat]

You're writing your own story at this point, maybe you just enjoy typing?
I never wrote or think any of this.

I am just selling my personal doubles, like it or not. Grow up.

[department28]

True. Some people will always find loopholes... 🐍

Perhaps there should be a sensible upper limit per year for items like cds/dvds? When a private seller went past the limit, there would be listing fees for any subsequent sales in that category.

On the other hand, I think eBay has got problems enough to be going on with, without adding in more complications... 😄

[*devils.advocate*]

..... You can try and argue the opposite of reality if it makes you think you are correct but simply adding a date of 2005 and saying you did not choose to open a private account begs the question : .....

Was that choice available back then?

I can't remember, to be honest.

[dch2112011]

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@*devils.advocate* wrote:

..... You can try and argue the opposite of reality if it makes you think you are correct but simply adding a date of 2005 and saying you did not choose to open a private account begs the question : .....

Was that choice available back then?

I can't remember, to be honest.

2005 what a year ! ebay acquired paypal, skype and other online businesses, they were bigger than Amazon and their main markets were USA and Germany, they pulled out of Japan, recognised business sellers and offered ebay protection where a buyer could claim up to 90 days from purchase by paying ebay $25 and ebay would pay out up to a maximum of $200 if found in the buyer's favour.

Business accounts were definately around in 2009 when they were actually introduced is not easy to find. 

With the acquisition of paypal at the end of 2005 came paypal protection in terms of items not as described or not delivered which ebay did not offer at this time  and all claims were handled direct with paypal if payment was made via paypal, it was not universally available to all buyers - it was being rolled out as the preferred payment method.

Ah the good old days of the wild west !

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[dch2112011]

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@ankocat wrote:

You're writing your own story at this point, maybe you just enjoy typing?
I never wrote or think any of this.

I am just selling my personal doubles, like it or not. Grow up.

I never accused you of  selling anything other than you declare  for you to think so and respond the way you do appears that the realities of selling on ebay hit a raw nerve for reasons only known to yourself.

You did however complain that you cannot compete on price with businesses selling on ebay  which is rather odd because as you say you are merely disposing of unwanted personal items for free , this amongst other statements you made makes you sound as though you want to act as a business without the costs of a business.

The problem is that you paid retail price and businesses pay trade prices - you can sell second hand items at any price above or below today's retail price  but what is unrealistic is to blame ebay or business sellers for the net price achievable  - that is reality .

I would not suggest you grow up but I would suggest you try and understand that personal unwanted items have no business costs  and anything you sell them for is a bonus,

When you decide that you want to compete with businessess with the same benefits  but without any costs, it shows you haven't understood how ebay, businesses or private sellers operate and are merely angry that you cannot make up the rules to suit yourself which is not a good look.

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[ankocat]

😪you have literally been typing paragraphs and going on tangents about unrelated things I've never even mentioned or said or did, over and over in this thread. 

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@dch2112011 wrote:

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I never accused you of  selling anything other than you declare  for you to think so and respond the way you do appears that the realities of selling on ebay hit a raw nerve for reasons only known to yourself.

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Should I go through all the posts and copy all the things you accused me of? there's a lot.

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@dch2112011 wrote:

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You did however complain that you cannot compete on price with businesses selling on ebay  which is rather odd because as you say you are merely disposing of unwanted personal items for free , this amongst other statements you made makes you sound as though you want to act as a business without the costs of a business.

Accusing me of acting like a business once again.
And please don't put words in my mouth, I'm not disposing of items for free, I'm selling them just like every other person on eBay.
Read my complaint again. I never mentioned business sellers or all the other waffle you keep bringing up.

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@dch2112011 wrote:

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The problem is that you paid retail price and businesses pay trade prices - you can sell second hand items at any price above or below today's retail price  but what is unrealistic is to blame ebay or business sellers for the net price achievable  - that is reality .

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Amiibo cards in particular were so scarce and were sold almost exclusively through the Nintendo store with a smaller amount going through Amazon. Almost all of the sellers selling these are resellers, 90% might even be too low. There are no trade prices. Some sellers may be getting them in bulk lots, others might be selling fakes, there's a lot of them out there due to the scarcity.
Where did I blame eBay or mention business sellers? I only said it was unfair, and it is.
You're writing your own story here, again.

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@dch2112011 wrote:

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I would not suggest you grow up but I would suggest you try and understand that personal unwanted items have no business costs  and anything you sell them for is a bonus,

When you decide that you want to compete with businessess with the same benefits  but without any costs, it shows you haven't understood how ebay, businesses or private sellers operate and are merely angry that you cannot make up the rules to suit yourself which is not a good look.

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So if I lose money (and I will) I should be so happy that I spent hours on my listing, because hey! it's a bonus!
Then when it sits there unsold because I can't charge less than £1.75 I should be even happier!! yay!

Where did I say I decided to compete with businesses? Because I want to actually sell my items? 
I understand perfectly well, but thanks for inferring I'm stupid and then writing that I'm angry when I haven't said that once.

Feel free to write more little stories about me, but I will not be replying to them.

[dch2112011]

Here are just a couple of your claims 

most of my cards aren't very valuable so, as an example one is going for around £1.45 on ebay currently. However, as I can only input £0.99 as the lowest price, due to the Buyer Protection Fee being added to the listing price, I can only sell it for £1.75+.

Plus, added to this if I am actually able to sell the item and offer free shipping too, meaning I lose £0.85 on the £0.99 if only 1 is sold.   

'its not just one seller though, plus in that £1.45 example in particular they are also running a multibuy discount of 20% so that item would actually cost £1.16. eBay has removed this feature for private sellers to use.

You are referring to  a business seller  and complaining that a private seller  account does not allow you to do what a business account can do !

I may be forced to sell in batches eventually, it's hardly ideal as buyers will want to buy individual cards to complete their collections, I do this myself.

I'm selling them to other collectors who want these specific ones and I want to sell them at market value like everyone else is doing.

You are stating you are trading and complaining that businesses can sell at lower prices than you can using a private account 

You then proceeded to respond to other posts which were responses to other posters which you took offence to - out of context and became personal - as I say  you need to understand the difference between a personal seller and a business seller and how the accounts are designed to work - you cannot no matter how much you protest change a personal account to do the same as a business account so that you can pay no fees and make more money at the cost of ebay or other sellers - it aint gonna happen !

14p is about what the business sellers make on a £1.50 item 

[ankocat]

😂go to bed

the scary private accounts won't get you

[johnwash1]

@ankocat 

When arguing with my wife, she wants to have the last word.  I used to be the same.  Then I learned to let her 'win'.

I wonder if I should start a business.  I think if I got some signs made, "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS", I could do quite well.  And these forums would be easier to read and more useful.