INAD for damage possibly caused by buyer

[amtech24]

Last month I have sold an old iPhone 13 mini silicone case that I no longer use. Before putting it up I did test it to see if it's in working order. There was a small tear on the bottom right of the case which should not worsen as long as the case was handled appropriately. Other than the tear the case looked to be in good working order. Had also tested the wireless charging and that also worked without issues.

The tear was shown in the photos and the description had stated to check the photographs before purchasing. The item was shipped in appropriate packaging with the original box.

More than 30 days later, the buyer now claims that the entire protective rubber of the case has torn off. Apparently it started a few days after receiving it. I was confused why didn't he report the issue then and waited until it was completely torn off. Looking at the photos it really does seem like the case may have been mishandled in some way as I find it really hard to believe that this could happen solely from normal usage.

Apple silicone cases aren't also the best in terms of durability and a quick search on Google reveals mixed findings. It seems the buyer did no research on the item as his negative feedback indicates that he did not look at product reviews. But apparently it's all my fault, as if I was the manufacturer of the item...

He later ended up opening an INAD claiming the product is defective, more than 30 days after it was delivered. After some back and forth, ultimately I decided to give the benefit of the doubt and accept the return.

eBay refused to remove the negative feedback before "it didn't match the listing description". As stated before the buyer never mentioned anything about it not arriving as described and only said it started to develop issues a few days after receiving it, and waited until weeks later to tell me about it. Is eBay right to deny the removal request? Was there anything I could have done differently in this entire transaction?

I realised later that maybe I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions so quickly but it was just really hard to believe the case is now in such a bad condition just by using it, given my testing showed no indication of it worsening.

[myriad*seller]

It may have been affected by hydrolysis 

It is a common problem with plastics, especially plastics that have not been used for a while

Or the tear may have created a weakness which prevented it being put on the phone without tearing.

Either way it was not fit for purpose, so you correctly refunded as you should. 

It is better to accept returns without issue if you don't want negative feedback. The buyer is miffed their time and money was wasted, I am sure. 

[myriad*seller]

This explains why some plastics degrade due to hydrolysis

It is common that this happens to the soles of shoes. They look fine, until someone wears them a couple of times and they completely disintegrate. We get regular posts about this very issue. 

https://www.plasticprop.com/articles/hydrolysis/

Obviously in these cases, buyers are due a full refund

Even if it was the tear that caused the issue, the item was not fit for purpose, so a refund is due. 

[myriad*seller]

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@amtech24 wrote:

It seems the buyer did no research on the item as his negative feedback indicates that he did not look at product reviews. But apparently it's all my fault, as if I was the manufacturer of the item...

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It's not up to the buyer to "do research" before buying an item

It is reasonable to expect that the item would be fit for purpose. If you were aware of issues you should have included them all in the listing. The buyer doesn't have to do any research to buy the item.

[johnwash1]

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@myriad*seller wrote:

This explains why some plastics degrade due to hydrolysis

It is common that this happens to the soles of shoes. They look fine, until someone wears them a couple of times and they completely disintegrate. We get regular posts about this very issue. 

https://www.plasticprop.com/articles/hydrolysis/

Obviously in these cases, buyers are due a full refund

Even if it was the tear that caused the issue, the item was not fit for purpose, so a refund is due. 

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Having read that article:

"Temperature. The water must be hot; close to boiling or steam. Rain or splashes of cold water are not harmful."

So I guess the buyer took his iPhone into the sauna?  Doesn't seem at all obvious to me that the item wasn't fit for purpose and I'd like to see whether Apple think that.  I'd insist on it being returned before refund and then send it to Apple.

And more than 30 days?

Edited after viewing the listing: it's nice to see a seller who photographs the item from every angle and even mentions the wear/tear in the description.  If this seller ends up with a neg they can reply to it calmly and offset any concern that future buyers might have.

[amtech24]

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It is reasonable to expect that the item would be fit for purpose. If you were aware of issues you should have included them all in the listing. The buyer doesn't have to do any research to buy the item.

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Well, if I was looking for a case, I would check the reviews and watch YouTube videos to see how it performs in day to day usage. If durability is important, there are better third party cases out there.

Just because it has Apple's name on it doesn't mean it's the best thing in the world:

https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/1093wjs/apple_silicone_case_is_honestly_the_worst_case/?cha...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/1fqo6jc/iphones_silicone_case_after_16_months_of_use/#light...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/1d6gq1f/an_issue_that_isnt_talked_about_enough_apple/?chain...

https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/17fwd2l/apple_silicone_cases_are_terribly_made/?chainedPost...

From the countless Reddit, MacRumors etc. posts I've seen they have small tears over time as they age but I find it unimaginable to think that from normal usage, a case with a small tear would rip apart completely within a month. Also, when putting it on and off there was no indication of it worsening.

When it comes to issues with this item specifically I had mentioned the small tear at the bottom right of the case. Other than that I was not aware of any other issues with this specific unit I sold.

At the end of the day I am just a seller getting rid of things I don't need anymore. Whether the product itself is good or not is something the buyer has to determine. And I'm happy to answer any questions about it in DMs.

I won't dismiss the hydrolysis theory, maybe that was a possibility but unfortunately it was something I was completely unaware of before selling it.

I'm now concerned if the iPad case I'm trying to sell has such hidden issues (have taken it down for now): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356142610716

[amtech24]

So I guess the buyer took his iPhone into the sauna?  Doesn't seem at all obvious to me that the item wasn't fit for purpose and I'd like to see whether Apple think that.  I'd insist on it being returned before refund and then send it to Apple.

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I've already accepted the return request and will refund the buyer once I get it. Will probably ask on some Apple communities what could have happened as I'm genuinely curious. It's pretty much useless now.

[amtech24]

Looking at this video, the material is held tightly with glue:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ETnfrBfaaAw?feature=shared

So the buyer is essentially claiming that the glue has worn out and the material fell off by itself. I’m not sure how this would have been possible without some sort of user error being involved but would like to know what you guys think.

[johnwash1]

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@amtech24 wrote:

Looking at this video, the material is held tightly with glue:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ETnfrBfaaAw?feature=shared

So the buyer is essentially claiming that the glue has worn out and the material fell off by itself. I’m not sure how this would have been possible without some sort of user error being involved but would like to know what you guys think.

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What you guys think?  Well, I'm sure my view will be a minority one, but I think the gene pool would be greatly improved if some people had been left out on a hillside to die of hypothermia or animal attack.  Including that buyer.  But returning to the world we live in now...

I think you've handled this whole episode in the best way you could.  I'm glad to see you're not simply refunding the buyer without first requiring a return, even though that will cost you.  And when you get it back and all is settled, it will be time to think about the honest reply you'll make on your feedback.  Which needs thinking about very carefully so as to maximise the perception other prospective buyers will gain.

Doubtless your feedback score has now been ruined.  So gear up to listing lots of small, no problem, items so that the percentage will improve.  Continue taking care with your descriptions and listings, the way you already have.  And don't let it get you down, sooner or later most sellers experience something like this.  Ebay makes it inevitable.

[kad1178]

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@amtech24 wrote:

 There was a small tear on the bottom right of the case.

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Your description did not highlight this which is INAD to start with in my opinion.

[dch2112011]

Given that you openly admit 'Apple' cases are not the best for durability and that the case was significantly damaged presumably by stress / flexing when repeatedly or forcibly taken on and off during it's useful life  why you decided it was  suitable to sell as fit for purpose?

I assume  the reason it had been replaced by the previous owner was because it was no longer capable of adequtely serving it's desirable use  physically or cosmetically, or at the very least the previous owner perceived that it was about to fail catestrophically.

I question why you feel indignant that the case failed shortly after purchase and minimal use by the buyer.

Your item description falls short of actually stating what the damage was and therefore is not as described - it is not sufficient to simply state ' some wear and tear' look at the photos - a buyer has to rely on your description - they cannot physically inspect the case in the photo - it shows a defect but it is not obviously a tear .

I also question why on earth you want to spend more money on return postage which you will lose to receive an unsaleable item back unless you have decided already to try and deny a refund using the excuse the customer damaged the case - having accepted the return you will be forced to refund if this thought is in your mind.

Simply refund the buyer and tell him to keep the case - it makes no sense paying out more than you have to and trying to withhold a refund will come back and bite you.

Learn from this and if you want to sell defective items - plenty of photos of the faults and an explanatory description will reduce the risk of unhappy customers - even better don't sell defective goods as functional items

[johnwash1]

The 4th photo clearly shows the damage.  Referred to in the description "There is some wear and tear, please see photos before buying."

@dch2112011   I guess we have to differ.  My view is that there are people around who would have used that case for months or even a year or two, and there are others who'd destroy it in days.  Same as there are people who go their whole life without a broken bone, others who love diving off high cliffs without checking the water depth.

[dch2112011]

And that's why the OP needs to describe the damage and take better photos so that no misunderstanding can be made - to me you can see a fault but I would not see it as a tear nor necessarily see it as damage.

Without clear description and photos you are leaving the buyer to make an assumption and if that assumption differs to what is received ie the damage perceived is worse or detrimental when used - you leave yourself open to a return and poor feedback

So in this instance we have the OPs admission it was torn and the buyers description that it was not as described and the damage worsened with normal use.

[amtech24 · Accepted solution]

I think the heat from the phone may have killed it. Or the cold weather. I only tested the product indoors so maybe there's a chance that could have happened.

Anyway, I have settled all misunderstandings with the buyer and feedback has been updated. So will now close this topic. Thanks for your help everyone.