I Added Free Recorded Delivery Buyer took out case against me

[plushvelvet54]

Hi,

A buyer purchased a job lot of baby patterns from me and paid for standard 2nd Class RM postage.  As the items were heavy I added recorded/signed for delivery to the item without charging for this extra postal service and did not add the recorded delivery tracking number.  I did not tell the buyer I added this but wanted to do it for the extra security for my buyer.

Yesterday the buyer took an item not arrived case against me via eBay.  I then remembered that I had sent it recorded and checked with RM track and trace which stated they had attempted delivery on the 5th but no one appeared to be in.  I then sent the buyer an email with the tracking number and that RM track and trace states was not in and that she has not rebooked to have the item redelivered.

The buyer got back to me and was very curt, didn't bother to thank me for adding the extra service, and stated that she is not at home during the week as she works away from home. She also stated that there was no redirection card left by Royal Mail. She also stated that if a parcel arrives her neighbor usually takes it in and that she thinks it must be a new postie who does not know about this.

She also stated that now she knows about the recorded delivery, she will 'Try' to get it redelivered.  She did not sign her name on the email, I felt she was abrupt and wondered how she could sell things on the same eBay ID if she works away all week.

I sent her pictures via eBay messages of the post office receipt for the item with the tracking plus pictures of the RM track and trace and what it states about her parcel's journey and for her to book a redelivery.

She has not answered me, only sent one email. 

I am worried that she may still try to get her money back. What are my rights in this situation, please

EBay does not seem to have any customer services anymore and would value some advice, please.

I feel she used too many excuses in the one short curt email to me but they are probably genuine.

I have added the tracking to eBay's case against me.

What are my rights here and do you think she will try to get her money back?

thank you

Sarah x

[tressygirl]

eBay regard an attempted delivery as a ' delivery'.

You have done everything correctly,  messaged and informed the buyer of the tracking details, and entering the tracking numbers when marking the item dispatched.

If she does open a case enter those tracking numbers into the case details,  showing the attempted delivery,  it should close in your favour, no need to refund.

[plushvelvet54]

Hi Tressygirl,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I am not sure that I did do everything correctly.  When I sent the item out to her, she only paid for standard RM 2nd class delivery but I decided to add the signed for/recorded delivery for free for her as they were lovely patterns.  I forgot to add the tracking to the item.  I had sent 2 buyers items with the additional signed-for/recorded delivery for free (did not charge for the extra RM signed-for/recorded) I had marked all the ones that I had sent that day as posted but forgot which ones I had added the additional recorded delivery to.  

When she took the case out against me yesterday, I checked the Royal Mails post office receipt and realised that this buyer was one of the buyers to whom I added recorded delivery service for free.  I think I was rushed the day that I went to the post office and did not check the receipt to see which ones I had added the additional service for free, so I just marked them all as sent out. 

This buyer only knew it had been sent recorded yesterday when she took a 'Item Not Arrived' case against me yesterday.

I added the tracking number to the case she took out against me.

It is clear from the Royal Mail track and trace website that this buyer was not in and that Royal Mail had advised a redelivery of the item.

She stated that she was not at home during the week due to her always working away.  She stated that RM did not leave a redirection card and that the neighbour next door usually takes in her parcels when she is not there during the week and that it must have been a new postie that day as he did not know about the arrangement. 

She also sells from this same buying ID but was wondering how she can sell and post off if she is working away all week and only comes back at weekends.

Is it still correct that eBay will view the tracking information that I entered into the 'Item Not Arrived' case yesterday and find it in my favour?  Or have I done something wrong and they will find in her favour?  I only ask as she stated in her one email to me yesterday, that she will 'try to get a redirection delivery'.  So I am wondering what if she can not get it redirected and delivered to her for some reason ie she is working away every week.  Will eBay find in her favour and I will have to issue her a refund.

Thank you

Sarah x

[4_bathrooms · Accepted solution]

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@plushvelvet54 wrote:

She stated that she was not at home during the week due to her always working away.  She stated that RM did not leave a redirection card and that the neighbour next door usually takes in her parcels when she is not there during the week and that it must have been a new postie that day as he did not know about the arrangement. 

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I don't think it's a new postie. As the item was sent "Signed For" it can't be redirected, left with a neighbour nor left in a "safe place".

Having looked it seems Royal Mail have updated their redelivery process:

"Please note that you will no longer be able to collect your parcel after the first delivery attempt, you can’t collect your parcel until after we’ve made the automatic redelivery attempt the next working day (excluding Sundays and Bank Holidays)."

From what I can gather the postie should have left a "Something for you" card when they tried the initial delivery indicating they would attempt redelivery on the next available working day. If that redelivery attempt fails they will leave a card providing your buyer with instructions for arranging redelivery on a more convenient day or having the item sent to a local Post Office/Customer Service Point for collection.  

[tressygirl]

Your tracking shows attempted delivery so this counts as ' delivery' and those tracking numbers entered into a case the buyer may open, I understand she hasn't done so yet,  this will close it in your favour.

It doesn't work on any sucessful or unsuccessful redirected attempts,  it's the first attempt that is important and counts,  and you have shown this.

@plushvelvet54 

[plushvelvet54]

Hi Tressygirl,

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, she opened the case against me yesterday.   She did not contact me first to ask about the parcel, she just went ahead and opened the case.  I replied the the case and I entered the tracking details of the parcel.  I also sent her a couple of emails via eBay messages, so that I could add the attachment pictures of the post office receipt and also pictures of the Royal Mails track and trace page stating the attempted delivery on the 5th.  She then sent me a short curt reply with the explanation that she works away all week, there was no card left by Royal Mail, and that her neighbour usually takes in her parcels from Royal Mail when she is working away from home,  etc.

Thank you so much, this will be great if this is the case because as you mentioned, RM has attempted the first delivery, so hopefully this will be the case.

The case was opened yesterday but she has not closed it.  I did politely request that she close it, due to the attempted delivery but I have not had any contact from her after the only email.  

Anyway, I am keeping my fingers crossed as from what you have mentioned all should be well 🙂

Thank you so much for your kind help

All best wishes from Sarah x

[forapersona1]

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for you. You changed the details of your original listing. I have had several packages over the last year sent by sellers who have chosen to change their delivery method and not even bothering to inform me. In one case I purchased a camera to be delivered by RM and the buyer sent it by DHL instead and it sat on my doorstep for over 3 hours without me knowing, despite being in at the alledged delivery time. I can't be the only buyer who buys from ebay and looks at the delivery method. I personally won't use anything other than delivery by RM, and I expect sellers to live up to what they state on their listing.

[forapersona1]

Sorry I forgot to add, your buyer may have been expecting delivery by RM and the package to fit through a letterbox, as they may not have been in. You have now caused them hassle in trying to get the item they bought, because you decided not to stick to your original listing details.

[4_bathrooms]

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@forapersona1 wrote:

I can't be the only buyer who buys from ebay and looks at the delivery method. I personally won't use anything other than delivery by RM, and I expect sellers to live up to what they state on their listing.

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The OP didn't use a different carrier. They used the same carrier specified in the listing (Royal Mail) but chose an enhanced service over the advertised one. 

[forapersona1]

And that buyer may have bought on the expectation that it would be delivered and could fit through a letter box. It may well have been an enhanced servive by the stated courier, but the conditions of delivery have changed, and now the buyer is faced with unnecessary hassle trying to get the item they bought. 

[rjwilmsi]

In my view sellers are definitely allowed to upgrade the delivery service used within the same courier company.

If a buyer knows they won't be at home to receive an item then Click & Collect could be used.

In this specific case: seller has proof of delivery so buyer should not win an INR case - proof of attempted delivery is enough for eBay seller protection to apply.

Learning points:

• If you have a tracking number add it to the eBay order details at point of dispatch, so the buyer is kept informed.
• When using Royal Mail, unless you specifically need to purchase your postage at a Post Office, use the Tracked services and don't use Signed For. Tracked is a more reliable service, fully tracked, normally cheaper than Signed For and key point here: it gets the delivery scan without requiring a signature so adds no risk of extra inconvenience to buyer. (Tracked items can still be dropped off at post office if you like).
• There is effectively now no scenario in which Signed For is the best Royal Mail service to use - you either use plain 1st/2nd (low value), Tracked (moderate value and/or want full tracking) or Special Delivery (high value, specific insurance e.g. jewellery or urgent). (Unless perhaps you are somebody unable to use the internet to purchase a Tracked label, but clearly any eBay seller is an internet user)

[leopardlass]

Hi usually when you go to help and contact if you get to the automated assistant ,tap in human in the answer box and it should direct you to a customer service person .Also because the tracking showed attempted delivery ,Ebay Usually see this as delivered ,but if you can contact them let them have the tracking number so they can see for themselves what it says ,they will check it .The customers service staff are pretty good and will really try and help you .

[forapersona1]

"If a buyer knows they won't be at home to receive an item then Click & Collect could be used."

The OP  said that their seller was away during the week. The buyer may have reasonably expected that the items they were buying would fit through a letter box so bought the item.

The seller changed the conditions of the delivery and has now forced the buyer into a situation where they are now put out by the sellers actions. Not exactly great customer service. How far away from the sorting office does the buyer live? It may not be a simple journey for them.

The buyer bought the items with the expectation they were coming by normal 2nd class. The seller could just as esaily got proof of postage and entered that in the tracking, something I always do and have never had any problems with it.

Is it really so dificult for some of you to understand that if a buyer buys an item from you, they expect to receive it as per listing, not what you, the cat or the dog think is appropriate.

[plushvelvet54]

Hi,

Thank you for your reply.  

This was a large letter package over 500g, so in my experience would not have fitted through the letterbox.  I have tried with our letterbox and there is no way that this parcel (I have re-created a similar size to see if it would fit) would have fitted a standard letterbox

Thank you

Sarah x

[plushvelvet54]

Hi,

This was a large letter package over 500g and there is no way this would have fitted through a standard letterbox.

This buyer replied to me and stated that they are working away all week.  I still fail to understand how this buyer, who also sells from the same ID as they buy from, can sell and post from this same ID when they work away from their home all week.

Also, they stated that Royal Mail did not leave a card.  On Royal Mails website for this buyer tracking number, it clearly states they should use the  - 'Something For You Card' we left - This buyer is claiming that there was no card left and yet Royal Mail on the track and trace for the buyer it clearly states they left a card.  

Thank you

Sarah x

[plushvelvet54]

Hi Leopardlass,

Thank you so much, I did not realise this, I thought I would have to phone the USA number to get through to customer services.  When Ebay used to have UK phone customer service, I always found them helpful, so it would be great if I could get help via customer services again.

Thank you

Kindest regards from Sarah x

[plushvelvet54]

Hi rjwilmsi,

Thank you so much.

I think I will purchase Royal Mails service online now, so it can be tracked. I used to do this but for some reason started using the post office again instead of online.

Thank you

Kindest regards from Sarah

[plushvelvet54]

Hi,

There is no way that this would have fitted through the letterbox. I have tried with a similar sized large letter parcel of patterns plus the extra padding and it does not fit through my letterbox. This buyer knew (according to her email to me) she would be working away all week.   She also manages to sell items from the same ID and send them off even though she works away all week. I presume she must take all of her stock and packaging with her when she is working away every week.  

thank you x

[plushvelvet54]

Hi 4_bathrooms,

Thank you, yes I chose the same courier (Royal Mail) and thought I would offer an enhanced service as I wanted to make sure the items would arrive to my buyer.  Maybe a false hope, but I am unsure now how reliable signed-for/recorded delivery is.  I was under the illusion that it was a more secure way to send an item and was prepared to pay extra myself to ensure that the item reached my buyer. 

Thank you 

Kindest regards from Sarah x 

[plushvelvet54]

Hi,

I feel that the buyer did not know for sure that the item would fit through the letterbox, how could she know for sure.  I have tried with a similar parcel and weight, with the same added packing that I originally used and it does not fit through mine.  I presume that letterbox slots may be different sizes, we live in an old house, and may be mine is different but do me it looks standard but can not be 100% sure.  

If they buyer is working away all week and I feel that she should have chosen another postal/courier service to guarantee that it would be delivered on the day that she would be at home.  Another option would have been for her to click and collect, so she could do this on her days when she is at the postal address that is specified on the Buyer ID.  The address that is on the invoice for me or any other seller to send to.  She has been purchasing all sorts of items to this address, the address she states she is not in all week. All week, does this include just Mon-Fri or is it Mon-Sat. I have no idea.  However, if this is the address that any seller in good faith sends the item to, then surely all items would need to be guaranteed to fit through the letterbox.  I feel that she needs to opt for click and collect if she is not going to be in 5-6 days a week at this address.  

If no one else lives at this address then you have to be sure the item that the buyer is buying is guaranteed to fit through her letterbox.  This was not sold as a letterbox item or letterbox gift.

Thank you 

Sarah x