Ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb

[rsbrickshop]

I'm a private seller. Items I sell are between £2.90 - £10. Is It just me or will ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb make it near impossible to sell competitively. A few months ago Ebay got rid of Sellers' fees for private sellers, which was a welcome move. But this new change and getting rid of multi-buy discount for private sellers will make it worse than it was with the original fees.

[sammylou40]

EBay have never supported sellers in a dispute 

no matter how much in the right the seller is 

I had a heated discussion with a rep not long ago when a buyer perpetrated a fraud on me.  EBay sided with the buyer, of course.   Their theory is that they cannot inspect items and have to assume that buyers are honest 

I nearly blew a gasket 

I told them they cannot have a blanket policy and must deal with things on a case by case basis. 
nope.   
buyer was refunded and had an item that they claimed they did not get, despite filing a claim to return it as not as described 🙄.  Which I rejected 

how they managed that I do not know. They spun some tale about pressing wrong buttons etc. 

I decided that, even though in the whole scheme of things, it was relatively low value at £35 they were not getting away with it because it was all absolute lies anyway.  
the NAD and not received. 

I sent them an eBay message with proof of delivery and said I wanted payment within 7 days or the item returned. Which they ignored. And I also requested their phone number from eBay. I told eBay I intended to sue and they told me that was a good idea!!!!!! My reply was I shouldn’t have to, they should have supported me. 
I texted them and said I hadn’t had payment so could they please send a cheque immediately and they blocked the number. 
texted from a different number a week later telling them I was serious and expected return of the item or payment or I would take further action. Blocked again. 
after another 7 days I sent a Letter Before Action, outlining my case and all the details and what I expected of them.  And they still didn’t take me seriously 😂😂😂

so I filed with the small claims court , outlining the details of their scam 

it cost me £25   
I claimed the costs, daily interest and the £35 and the day they got served that letter, they paid every penny to the court 😂😂

I would encourage everyone who has been scammed by an eBay buyer to do the same. It is so easy to do.  And can be done for small amounts of money.  And teaches the scammers a big lesson. 
and if they ignore that, there’s CCJ’s to go with it 

[sammylou40]

I’ve never come across your items before.  But I’ve put you on my watch list in case you come back 

im so sorry 

it’s really going to ruin small sellers like you and I’m absolutely furious 

although I can’t do anything about it sadly 😡😡😡

[Anonymous]

Oh I don't know, but  a couple of things are making me wonder. A few people sound like they are reading from a law book or ebays staff manual. Its well a bit unreal. 

In 8 years I've been a very occasional user of these forums, indeed I've put on more posts in the last week!  Why? Because this has really *bleep* me off. And that's a good enough in my book.

By the way you are not a business under any circumstances as you, like me, don't earn enough. EBay needs to remember that a lot of people do this for pleasure, but no more I fear. 

I think its going to go down the toilet if it goes on like this.

Have a good evening.

[sammylou40]

Scaremongering much?

[sammylou40]

Vinted show the item price quite clearly 

the BPF is shown much smaller underneath and then the total is given along with the postage fee at checkout.  
there’s no ridiculous 4% fee on top 

[goodibags]

Wouldn't your best bet be to gift an unassembled model to a neighbour to build and then have it gifted back to you? Keep it simple. 😀

I bought a few job lots of toy cars to repaint 5 years ago. I've already sold some and may sell more (tho' NOT with big buyer fees slapped on top). I'm guessing their being personal possessions all this time overrides their having been made? The paints themselves are long gone! 

[andha-21]

I'm honestly not sure if that's their intention. I have been watching their posts with alot of interest since I started using the community last week but the vibe I get is that they are sitting on the fence, possibly a slight tilt in eBay's favour, but purely because they currently believe that eBay are legally sound.

[andha-21]

Lol. I was asking because I wasn't sure if there would be boundaries. With a Warhammer model you just build someone else's creation. Whereas the example that kick-started this conversation suggested that the poster was the creator themself.

I just wondered if that was a factor. If it isn't I could build a puzzle, sell it built and need a business account and I doubt that is it's intention. But if I designed, made and then built a puzzle to sell then I could understand that falling under consumer law.

[lucy_farmer]

'By the way you are not a business under any circumstances as you, like me, don't earn enough'

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I can understand totally why valkyrie doesn't believe she is a business. She makes and sells stuff for tiny amounts of money as a hobby, for fun and satisfaction.

Unfortunately, who *is* or *isn't* a 'business, is nothing to do with how much you earn from that activity.

You're correct that HMRC wouldn't give a hoot if your business activty didn't take you over your trading allowance. But that trading allowance *means* that you are a business.

That's what 'trading' means.

And UK Consumer law has nothing to do with HMRC; they've got their own ideas about who's a business. And making or buying things to sell, according to them means you are one, no matter how tiny ...

Ebay have never helped sort this question out; offering 'shops' , 'out of stock options' and 'multi-buy options' to private sellers must have convinced many, that small-business selling on a private account was perfectly acceptable.

Ebay have to accept some of the blame for small business sellers being on private account without a clue that they're breaking UK Consumer Law.

[goodibags]

Bear in mind you can also look like you're trading just by selling off your own possessions or inherited stuff or a relative's house clearance. But the appearance of 'trading' doesn't necessarily mean you ARE running a business either, it could all be completely legitimate. HMRC will inevitably deal with each case on its own merits. 

@andha-21  Ah, but what if you built a puzzle to sell but couldn't shift it? That's more 'fail' than 'business'.

[andha-21]

In that scenario, obviously.

But my question remains. Do they make distinctions in making things. Is building someone else's creation enough or is it the total creative process that they look for. Design to final product.

[lucy_farmer]

'Bear in mind you can also look like you're trading just by selling off your own possessions or inherited stuff or a relative's house clearance....'

You didn't make or buy any of that stuff though......

[goodibags]

That's my point. It may still be 'trading' in HMRC terms, or something that appears to be. 

See that Badges of Trade article I posted earlier. A lot of it depends on perception.

Incidentally, if you DID make something to sell wouldn't you want to know that it will before rushing into business? You wouldn't quit full time work to open a bakery, or at least not before learning how to make some bread first.

Unless it was an Ebay bakery?  😁

[jonatjonatjonat]

"You wouldn't quit full time work to open a bakery"

You might not - but you would have to register that baking business 28 days before you started trading.

[goodibags]

All the more reason to make sure it was going to be a success BEFORE starting.

[bestbargainsuk]

Hi rsbrickshop

I am in the same situation, its a shame that when eBay was launched it was aimed at the private seller, now it's become impossible to sell low cost items.  I have been an eBay member for over 20 years but sadly it now looks like I will be closing my account soon and moving to Amazon.

[vintique*violet]

That's my point. It may still be 'trading' in HMRC terms, or something that appears to be. 

See that Badges of Trade article I posted earlier. A lot of it depends on perception.

Indeed  it does depend on "perception" ...however it seems that it was the courts that decided judging by the  old case laws. Have you read each BIM number. - all are decades old and not one appears to be referencing online marketplaces such as eBay. 

@goodibags 

edit - spelling 

[vintique*violet]

I thought that was for bricks and mortar businesses not online... I think you have time to register to see if it is viable? Has it all changed again?

[wargamers_vault]

Are you for real?

Looking at your first listing: 

ANTI-SLIP EAR HOOKS - More than 10 available 528 sold

Private seller - No returns accepted

This was the first listing I looked at. This whole thing is YOUR fault, you and every other person trading illegally as private sellers, when they should be registered as a business, have caused eBay to take this course of action, and now every other genuine private seller is paying the price.

Then you have the gall to come on here complaining! Boils my *bleep* honestly...

[the_book_seekers]

Lol. I was asking because I wasn't sure if there would be boundaries. With a Warhammer model you just build someone else's creation. Whereas the example that kick-started this conversation suggested that the poster was the creator themself.

I just wondered if that was a factor. If it isn't I could build a puzzle, sell it built and need a business account and I doubt that is it's intention. But if I designed, made and then built a puzzle to sell then I could understand that falling under consumer law

Part of the definition of being a business is to offer a service. With your scenarios if you were to put together a puzzle or a Warhammer model and later sell it as complete without any add ons then it wouldn't be considered trading. If you were to repeat this but added a charge for the building the puzzle or model then this would be considered offering a service and you would be trading as a business.