Ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb

[rsbrickshop]

I'm a private seller. Items I sell are between £2.90 - £10. Is It just me or will ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb make it near impossible to sell competitively. A few months ago Ebay got rid of Sellers' fees for private sellers, which was a welcome move. But this new change and getting rid of multi-buy discount for private sellers will make it worse than it was with the original fees.

[the_book_seekers]

Part of HMRC's definition of trading as a business includes making items to sell, and selling on a regular basis.

From what you've said you do qualify as a business. I'm afraid the fact that your selling is under the £1000 trading allowance meaning you don't have to submit a self assessment to HMRC doesn't make you any less of a business. If you were just selling off your personal possession rather than making stuff to sell you would be a private seller.

[doumind_7]

Actually no. Providing you don't pass the £1000 yearly limit you're not a business as far as the HMRC is concerned. So you are a private seller.

[jasonsdad]

I expect you are quite right in that definition, I believe EBay had failed completely by allowing all the private sellers here use their platform unchecked. Obviously there was money to be made, but somewhere a business has a responsibility to ensure, in this case, that their sellers, are following the law of the country they reside. For future there needs to be some form of vetting for all current users and new sellers.

[doumind_7]

Perhaps someone can answer this:

Are eBay employees allowed on these forums? I would hope not, but over this last week or so there are a, ok a very few, who write in the way of a staff manual or departmental manager. It doesn't really ring right also when a couple I looked at  had no items for sale and were not businesses. Mmm..

[goodibags]

So the solution is simply to not sell on a regular basis?

Or make your own personal possessions (i.e. to keep before selling)?

It's almost certainly a greyer area than is often presented in this forum. If I sold 3 bags of home-harvested rose petals and declared that to HMRC I'm imagining they'd most likely have a good laugh about it. 😁

[privatebaldrick]

I didn't mean that it's a bug. Just that private listings, because of the BPF uplift, now all have weird prices. Like a private seller's £20 item now showing as £21.55.

Unless eBay are going to eventually show all three values, listing price, BPF uplift and total price. Or maybe just listing and total including BPF which is I think what Vinted does.

If they are, then I'm sorry, I missed that.

[thesmi42]

I think if I had sold 12K items averaging, let's say £7 each, over 25 years I may just have gone over the so called £1000 limit at some point.

[abrahamtoast]

Rather than there being undercover eBay employees on the boards (extremely unlikely - why wouldn't they just post openly, as their posts would hold more weight then), I often wonder why these threads always have ONE absolute troll, who refuses to take note of what any of the many knowledgeable and experienced members here.

We recently had one who was obsessed with affiliate sites. Thankfully, he seems to have disappeared, but his mantle has been picked up on this particular thread and a number of others. It doesn't matter how often the truth is presented, this new poster just keeps coming back with the same misguided nonsense.

He knows perfectly well what the situation is, and is just stirring it. Please don't take any notice of his comments. Read the other posters, and do your own research.

[the_book_seekers]

Not going over the trading allowance limit just means a person doesn't have to submit a self assessment. It doesn't negate obligations under consumer regulations.

[goodibags]

After 888 replies NOW you tell us... 😉

[the_book_seekers]

Absolutely. ebay has allowed this situation to develop and the remedy lies with ebay.

[the_book_seekers]

Or make your own personal possessions (i.e. to keep before selling)?

The poster made no mention of making personal possessions that's something you've added.  Being a business isn't only about the money. It's also about intent - make something to sell and do it regularly means trading as a business. 

[goodibags]

'Intent' may be one of those things that can probably fluctuate on a regular basis too?

I have hardly ever 'bought to sell', but equally never sell anything that I haven't previously bought.

[doumind_7]

Of course. This is a very grey area. If I buy something for myself its a personal possession. Now if I sell five years later its still a personal possession.

So if I bought it last week and sell it this week why is it buy to sell? 

Intent to make a profit? How on earth would you prove that unless you were buying ten gold rings a week and then reselling them. Even then they are still a personal possession.

The only reason would be if there is a time limit somewhere. I don't see how though.

Love to know. I bet not many people have been pulled up for being £200 over the limit.

[dch2112011]

HMRC guidance is that there is not a time limit if the item is used but for unwanted ' unused items they should be owned for 6 months  to become personal possesions  - I guess the thought behind it is exactly to stop people buying to sell and claiming they were unwanted 'new' items.

The onus is not on HMRC to prove that they are bought to sell but on the individual to prove they weren't  and the only way I can see how to do this is to provide receipts 

[dch2112011]

Just to add HMRC guidance also states that a 'one off' single item purchased to resell  where there is a known shortage  ie rarity with demand will not be classed as purchased to resell under the guidance criteria  however this is limited to one item.

Not sure I completely understand this logic unless it has something to do with trading allowances ?

[alanjohnwiltshire]

Try marketplace as a free alternative. Ebay are always tweaking fee's.  

[xxxxxvalkyriexxxxx]

Considering the number of tickets I have submitted over the years plus the numerous conversations regarding e bays 'made up' Estimated delivery dates and due to the fact that nothing was changed, can I ask that do you really think that if an e bay 'spy' is writing on here that anything would actually be done about it by e bay ? 🙂 

[papso22]

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@andha-21 wrote:

So if I can ask, in a contextual sense regarding eBay policies and consumer law. Don't want to upset anyone.

You mentioned their second paragraph. I'm assuming it's the make to sell part and therefore consumer law should apply to those items. So that takes precedent over earning amounts and means they should have a business account regardless so their customers benefit from their rights?

Just trying to see if I'm understanding where you are coming from.

& again, I'm asking in a contextual sense. Trying to learn.

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Yes that's exactly right.  Consumer law and tax law are not the same, although they are similar.  Making things to sell is a business activity regardless of any tax allowances etc.

[andha-21]

Fair enough, thanks for confirming. So it could apply to my arena too. Warhammer models.

If someone bought an unassembled model, built it and listed it for sale they are running the same gauntlet?

Timeframe dependent of course.