EBay asking for national insurance number , I sell a lot but buy a lot hobby is collecting coins

[23mrf]

I’ve started collecting coins and I buy a large lot of coins take out what I want and then Sell what’s left over. Been doing this for 9 months, I am about £500 out of pocket from my initial outlay but am selling about £1000 in sales each month, will HMRC take into account that I am not taking out any money from my ebay account and realise it’s just a hobby or am I going to have to pay income tax on £12000 in sales? If so I may have to sell my collection to pay them!!!!

[papso22]

"Hence my point. I have it directly from HMRC that they don't need my information, because they are satisfied I am not a trader and only selling personal items."

This would have been in reference to the declarations you already made to them having registered as a sole trader.

The OECD regulations require ebay to report the sales of all sellers (whether already registered as businesses with HMRC or not, and whether just selling off personal items or not), so they still need to report yours if you go over one of the thresholds.  To do that they need your NINO.  If you don't provide it they will freeze any funds and still report the data, possibly with a red flag for non compliance.

On the business seller board there are complaints from large businesses that they also have to provide it when HMRC already has all their details, that's because it's a simple system that applies equally to everyone, regardless of status or existing or previous relationships with HMRC. 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

sorry if you were confused but i could not remember whether it was £1700 or euros, whatever it was the point i was trying to make was that it was 30 items or 1700 not both of them.

[lees_sales21]

I did not register as a sole trader. 

As explained I told them I had only sold personal items.

HMRC stated I was not a trader over the phone, online and in the letter.

I merely told them I had sold over £1,000 of personal items. Not goods I had bought to sell on. 

I never stated I said I was a sole trader, merely that HMRC said I was not, as they were personal items.

I am not providing my NIN to eBay. I will sell under £1,700 and less than 30 items.

I do not trust them with it. 

If it means I cannot use eBay any longer then so be it. A lot of people feel the same way.

I have openly declared everything to HMRC, have all the correspondence and accounts on a spreadsheet for each tax year.

Just in case they change the rules.

But, I will not pass my NIN to eBay.

I will just keep under the limit or close my account completely.

If I have to declare anything I would do so and I advise anyone else not to take risks. 

Years ago we got Child tax credits and me, being me I would rather not have the money, than have to pay it back at some point.

So I read all the documentation and online, and it stated that if there was an overpayment I would have to pay it back, so I looked through all the stuff so I could calculate it accurately. In the leaflets and online it said for further information (it was not all provided) contact us, so I did and they said they cannot give me any further figures or information, so how the Hell can you make sure you are getting the right amount?

You cannot.

As they don't provide all the info.

So we just set it aside just in case.

However, the last few years have been tight, hence selling stuff etc.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

HMRC have instructed all online selling sites and various others (Uber/airbnb) that they have to produce the list of those selling over 30 items and the amount of 1700, they also have instructed them to send in the national insurance numbers.  They will no way have been telling individuals that they do not need to bother giving it to whatever organisation they are with.

[lees_sales21]

Kath, from memory I think it is £2k euros.

So it depends on the exchange rate I guess.

Just to complicate things lol.

I wouldn't sell anything over about £950 each year, just in case.

Stung once. Not doing that again.

30 items isn't much though.

But will keep under it anyways.

Tbh lately I havent had much time to read, so haven't got anything ready to sell.

A lot of stuff is not worth selling now, given the additional BPF. 

So, plan to drop it off at the local dog shelter / charity as they have days where they sell stuff for the upkeep of their dogs. I love dogs, so happy to help them. 

I was really short last year, but a bit better off this year, partly as I haven't bought much from eBay lol.

I have mountains of books to read, which I plan to, but never seem to have the time.

So, it is 30 items or £2k in euros. 

Which is around £1,700 give or take. 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

what i do not understand is your insistence that e bay are special in that they cannot be trusted with your information and yet practically every government department has had a major hack at some time or other over the past years - even if some of them have been kept pretty quite and we only hear about it years later.  Lets not get started on banks etc.....

[lees_sales21]

LOL.

100% agreed.

Purely, just the less organisations that have it the better. 

You have hit the nail on the head here. They are all at risk, so I try to minimise that risk by providing personal information only when I absolutely have to.

If I sell 29 items I don't have to tell eBay 

Hence less risk.

I was once in an IT networking meeting and the company that was providing some equipment was asked if we were able to use a 15 character password. They said yes, but they asked why so many characters?

IT's response (and valid) was any 14 character or less can be hacked in less than 5 minutes. 15 characters or more use a different algorithm and are much more secure.

Risk is just part of being online etc. 

I merely want to try and minimise that risk as much as practicable.

And given my experience so far with eBay I would rather they didn't have it. If it meant no longer using eBay I would be prepared to do so.

Not because I have anything to hide, but I just do not want to take such risks. 

But they are all hopeless you are quite correct. 

[jckl1957]

Although you have now made your account private, so nobody can see your feedback, sales, values etc. which limits the advice that can be given, Ebay will give HMRC figures for last year, January to December 2024.

So, if you sold more than 30 items last year, and you have 156 feedback for the last 12 months, your sales will be reported to HMRC.

Without your NINO.

Because you refuse to provide it.

While I am not suggesting this is the case, HMRC may think you therefore do have something to hide.

[lees_sales21]

I already explained to you why I made it private. I also did that about 5 days ago, long before I posted on here.

I have no idea what you can see or cannot see. 

I have no listings currently and none likely for several months, so not really any need for my feedback to be open.

I was not after advice, merely stating that I was unhappy with the current BPF etc as indeed quite a lot of people are, plus NIN.

[lees_sales21]

There are some great people on here who are very helpful with tax etc. 

Our tax is unique and for the best advice you should always seek a financial advisor or deal with HMRC directly.

I do not want anyone to use my information, because there experience will be different to mine, their tax different to mine, due to income, benefits, marriage allowance transfers, deductions etc.

I am grateful to all who have commented, even though it was not originally my post. I feel guilty about jumping onto it.

I can only go off my own personal experience with HMRC whom once I finally got through on the phone were actually helpful.

Please if in doubt seek professional advice.

And good luck with your sales / purchases! 

I only hope eBay does revert back to what was IMHO a better system for buyers and sellers.

👍

[mrood786]

most sellers are NON trading normal people, im planning to sell my £6000 computer set up

I already paid tax and VAT on these items when bought new

Then later on of i sell my shoes my guitar my car stereo and my drone for £3000 then I will go above that limit and the greedy government will sting me on new charges

NOT FAIR

Im not a business seller im a normal person and the government are finding excuse after excuse to rob the normal people as much as they can, we in the UK have one of the worst and highest taxations on the planet yet they want more, hell watch soon enough they will introduce a breathing air tax, watch!..... 

[lucy_farmer]

'......will go above that limit and the greedy government will sting me on new charges'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No they won't.

You're selling stuff that were your personal possessions. You've had them for a certain length of time, and you've used them.  Then they're *your own stuff*.

You won't get taxed on what you sell them for.

You only get taxed on money you make from the sale of things you buy with the intention of  selling.

Or things you make with the intention of selling.

Or even things you have grown with the intention of selling.

There's no limit on how much money you get from selling your own stuff, without getting taxed.

UNLESS you make a sale for a single object (or collection of objects like a stamp collection)  of over £6000.

(this is the Capital Gains Tax).

If you want to sell your £6000. computer set up; Is it going to get 6 grand second hand?

If not, don't worry.

If yes, can it be sold as different parts?

(edit- fatfingers ...again)

[wintersdawn1]

• If you are selling unwanted personal possessions such as old toys or clothes, this would not be classed as trading or miscellaneous income, and there is usually no tax to pay. In some circumstances there may be capital gains tax when selling valuable items such as jewellery, this is covered in our flowchart.

https://www.litrg.org.uk/news/selling-online-make-sure-you-keep-clear-records

 

Do I have to share information with HMRC?

From January 2024, new UK digital sales reporting rules require digital platforms like eBay to share information with them. However, this reporting doesn’t change your tax obligations.

On eBay, this should only affect newly registered accounts in 2024, which will extend to all accounts in 2025.

eBay will only report if you pass certain yearly sales thresholds:

• If your total sales on eBay exceed €2000, or roughly £1740, after fees.

• If you complete 30 or more sales transactions on eBay.

In general, selling personal items is not taxed if they’re below £6,000 and you’re not selling as part of a business.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sellercentre/selling/selling-online-and-hmrc

@mrood786 

[specialk1937]

WHY MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT WHEN WITH A BIT MORE EFFORT YOU CAN MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE!

Goodbye to ebay,

It’s time to call it a day,

You’ve spoilt things completely,

By letting greed get in the way,

The Buyers Protection Fee was one big mistake,

And as for simple delivery

Give me a break!

Asking for NI Numbers was the last straw

Leaving me feel – I want no more!

Selling  used to be plain sailing but now it’s a farce

 It’s all just become a pain in the *bleep*!

17/3/04 – 19/5/25

[lees_sales21]

Whilst I am pretty disappointed with the recent Buyer Protection Fee and Simple Delivery programms, which has completely stopped me from selling, the NI number is not down to eBay. It is an OECD ruling that eBay has to legally comply with.

They will only ask for it is you sell over £1,700 (approx) or 30 items in a calendar year (not tax year).

[specialk1937]

Yes, I fully understand what you say. Initially though I thought, Oh no,
not another ebay infringement! I was also brought up believing that you
should not divulge your National Insurance Number to anyone apart from your
employer, and I did not regard ebay as my employer. Moreover as I pointed
out ebay, the Tax Office already have my National Insurance Number. In
fact it is quoted in any correspondence I have ever received from them over
the years!

[lees_sales21]

100%! 

When you reqeust a code so you can do a self-assesment on GOV.Uk you are given a UTR number (or somesuch from memory).

I think you should be able just to provide eBay a code, not your actual NI number.

That way you comply with legislation, but you're not giving your NI number out.

[*vyolla*]

I don't think that anybody is happy about letting any online selling platform having national insurance numbers:

Last year I received a letter from Southern Water telling me that my details had been taken during a hack, and that this may include my national insurance number. I know that I never gave them one, and when I queried it they said that part of the message was for those on benefits, who apparently get some kind of reduction. Bottom line is, they didn't manage to safeguard customers information and some people had their info (including their national insurance numbers) stolen. 

A couple of years ago Zara got in touch and told me that they'd been compromised and my info was taken. 

Vinted published the national insurance numbers of business sellers beginning of this year, an accident, apparently.

Marks & Spencer just informed me via email that my personal info has been taken from their database during a hack. I know it's just name, address, email, phone number and last 4 numbers of my credit card, date of birth (I always give a false date of birth to these kind of accounts because I know they're not secure) and what I've bought online from them since having an account, but anyone can now phone and say "hey, is that (name) living at (address)? Well, your credit card linked to your M&S (account number) ending (last 4 digits) has been fraudulently used etc and then the extraction of more personal and financial info begins. 

Quite frankly, these companies should be paying compensation to everyone who is affected (Southern Water offered a lame years free Experian), whose information they promise is kept securely when you sign up for an account, but clearly isn't.

[lees_sales21]

Agreed.

Sorry to hear about this btw.

Might be worth contacting the Information Comissioner and saying you are unhappy that your private information has been compromised and you feel it has left you in a vulnerable position. 

I think you should be compensated tbh. 

[lees_sales21]

Also, be very careful of that M and S email. 

Marks and Spencers have said they do not keep any card details, so the fact they are stating they have them, is suspect tbh.