EBay asking for national insurance number , I sell a lot but buy a lot hobby is collecting coins

[23mrf]

I’ve started collecting coins and I buy a large lot of coins take out what I want and then Sell what’s left over. Been doing this for 9 months, I am about £500 out of pocket from my initial outlay but am selling about £1000 in sales each month, will HMRC take into account that I am not taking out any money from my ebay account and realise it’s just a hobby or am I going to have to pay income tax on £12000 in sales? If so I may have to sell my collection to pay them!!!!

[lees_sales21]

The whole point I am making is my sales will be less than £100.

Way under the limit and I am not a trader.

I do not feel comfortable providing my NIN given all the hassles I have had. If that is stolen you can end up with all sorts of problems, which is why you are not meant to pass it on to anyone other than banks, the Government or sections thereof or work.

Ebay cannot get their systems to work properly, so why should I entrust them with something as important as that  merely to sell a few items, which HMRC state would not class me as a sole trader. 

I know because I have dealt with them already.

They have even sent me letters to say I do not have to inform them in future, unless I go over the £1,000, so why enforce this?

I know it was set by the OECD but it is sent to HMRC.

So, eBay will literally be sending my info to HMRC, when HMRC has already informed me they don't require it.

So I would be handing over my secure personal info for literally no reason to a company I do not have full confidence in.

I think I have no choice but to close my account.

Like many, many other people are stating they are going to, too. 

[jckl1957]

It probably is most sellers.

HMRC are going to be overwhelmed with information.

[jckl1957]

You can easily check your sales figures - remember the figure that will be sent to HMRC is for January to December 2024.

I see that you have now made your account details private but I did look at your items earlier and I believe you were selling some bundles of items for £140 so it is slightly disingenuous to say your sales will be less than £100 over the year.

[lees_sales21]

I think I have no choice then, but to close it and sell elsewhere.

This is stupid, when I literally have a letter from HMRC stating I do not have to inform them of my sales unless I go over the £1,000 limit before expenses.

So  I would be handing over very personal data to a company I do not fully trust with it (given my experiences), to send to HMRC for HMRC to state no need to, which I already have a letter stating this.

I have no choice. I am going to have to close it.

☹

[lees_sales21]

They have all your info when you open the account. Name, address, bank details etc. 

They therefore do not need your NIN.

They could be provided with a Government Gateway number.

Far safer than a NIN. 

[edwardian-dreams]

I imagine they will filter it all out somehow to concentrate on “who they’re after” lol

[edwardian-dreams]

Yeah but that’s more work for hmrc

its curious that not everyone’s been asked for their ni number though 

and in the ops case sales of less than the 1750 euros whatever it is hasn’t even been reached 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

it is sales of 30 items or 1700euro/pounds.   I was asked for my number last week (now made about 40 sales so far this year).  Sent it in straight away, i wish to keep selling as long as possible (until SD is made mandatory)

[edwardian-dreams]

Yes

 I I’m  sure most people have made more than 30 sales in  year ? So why hasn’t everyone who has been asked for their NI number 

not that I know they haven’t though 

But I made about 45 last year not been asked for anything but I only made about 300 quid

maybe it’s a combination of the two dunno 

[sml192]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

it is sales of 30 items or 1700euro/pounds.  

---

That's a rather confusing way to express it.

To be precise it's 30 items or 2,000 euros (approximately £1,700).

[lees_sales21]

I have been out shopping. I have not made my account private at all. I do not know how to do that. 

Unsure why they would send Jan to Dec 2024, when that is not a tax year. It runs from April 6th to the following April 5th. 

I haven't sold any bundle for £140. The highest was £50 and that was a few hundred comics as I wanted to clear the loft a fair bit.

I said I usually sell for £2.99 each, so 30 listings would be approx £100, which is nowhere near the £1,000 trading allowance. 

I haven't tried to avoid tax. A couple of years ago I didn't realise it was £1,000 before expenses and had sold about £1,020 that year, so I self declared and paid what was owed. However, I think I didn't need to as I am not a trader, merely selling my own comics and a few old vintage electronic items.

All my property and over a year 30 items is not a lot of items. I literally have hundreds of comics to sell. 

It is the disadvantage of being a hoarder.

Eventually something has to give.

I have no problem dealing with HMRC or self declaring if needs be, but I do not want eBay to have my NIN, purely for security reasons. 

Hopefully, you can understand my reasons for that. 

[lees_sales21]

Agreed.

I just don't want to hand over my NIN, purely for security.

[lees_sales21]

True.

I also find the £1,700 limit a bit bizarre, when the trading allowance is £1,000 before expenses.

Why the 2 different limits?

[lees_sales21]

Understood.

I have no issue with HMRC and my NIN and details, just very reluctant to hand over my NIN to eBay, which is essentially a third party and based on their software issues, hardly dependable.

[lees_sales21]

Exactly

Wouldnt that make more sense.

If you haven't breached the limit, why the 30 items, a lot of people will sell 30 items each year, it is hardly a big amount. 

[sml192]

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@lees_sales21 wrote:

True.

I also find the £1,700 limit a bit bizarre, when the trading allowance is £1,000 before expenses.

Why the 2 different limits?

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The reporting threshold is nothing to do with the trading allowance. 

The reporting thresholds are set by the OECD and are the same for every country that has signed up.  Unfortunately, they aren't tailored to the specific requirements of each country.

Similarly, the reporting period (Jan to Dec) is also set by the OECD.  It is set as Jan to Dec as that is what most countries use as their tax year, unlike the UK. 

[edwardian-dreams]

I think this was an eu thing …no idea what their thinking was 

anyway thought with Brexit we were out of eu 

but byway I don’t understand the 30 sales thing it’s piddle amount when you’re offloading your stuff

[edwardian-dreams]

Seems petty 

[lees_sales21]

If you look on the HMRC website it lists £1,000 trading allowance before expenses are removed.

On other pages HMRC also lists an allowance of £1,700. 

It just confuses things for people I feel.

The whole point is HMRC is trying to determine if you are trading. Their limit is £1,000 before expenses. 

We are based in the UK, so why would eBay not have to inform HMRC if you breached £1,000. It makes zero sense.

Based on this you could sell £1,699 and eBay would not be obliged to inform HMRC and yet you would be £699 over the trading allowance, of which they would want to know, so they can assess if you owe anything.

What also does not seem fair is if you do go over the £1,000 limit you have to pay 20% tax on all of it, not just over the limit. 

[jckl1957]

Somebody (not you?) has made your feedback private so nobody can look at your sales, although there are ways and means and, in fact, your 12 sales this year tot up to over £300, so an average of £25.  I can't understand why you think your sales for a whole year will be under £100.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_fss=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=lees_sales21&LH_SpecificSeller=1&LH_Complet...

As advised, the trading allowance has no relevance and the reporting period is a calendar year rather than the tax year.

Of course you can refuse to hand over your NINO and close your account.  However, I would suggest that, if you get a letter from HMRC asking for details of your sales, and several members have already reported that this has happened, you are completely honest with them.