Buyer Protection Fee now charged on International sales

[ganzdiesel]

I understaood that BPF was only charged to UK residents. However on Monday evening a Swiss customer resident in Zurich was charged the BPF.

Just had a complete waste of time call with CS who tried unsuccessfully to bluff it.

Anyone else seen BPF on International sales?

Just for transparency this sale was on my private id but I do also have a very active Business account.

Perhaps dave@ebay could pick this up as it appears to be yet another Ebay glitch.

[*vyolla*]

If you're a private seller based in the UK then international buyers will pay the BPF.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/paying-items/buyer-protection-fee?id=5594#section3

[ganzdiesel]

I am surprised that as a Pro Mentor you don't fully understand how BPF works.

BPF is not paid by International Buyers buying from UK based Private sellers. On this account I only have sales to International buyers, the items are of no interest to UK collectors, & until now no BPF has been levied. Indeed on Monday it was not levied on the other 6 International sales to European based buyers but for whatever reason this Swiss buyer has had it levied.

I have personally known him for 15+ years & regularly deal with him on my Business account but this is the first time he has bought from my Personal account since BPF was introduced. There is quite clearly something wrong which I am trying to get Ebay to acknowledge & fix.

[*vyolla*]

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@ganzdiesel wrote:

I am surprised that as a Pro Mentor you don't fully understand how BPF works.

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There's a lot I don't understand, but I find it odd that eBay's guidance page references it when mentioning international buyers. Hopefully somebody else will be able to explain what's going on there, certainly the site is experiencing some weird technical issues right now. 

[carrotdrusus2]

Its a bit of a pigs breakfast at the moment. I have had Polish, Dutch, Malaysian Solevenian, Slovakian and Swedish orders with BPF but every other country not so far.

[papso22]

You do wonder why there is a specific reference to VAT in the country of the buyer, which is about the buyer not being in the UK,  if the BPF does not apply to overseas buyers buying from UK based private sellers.

I think it's meant to.

[rainbowtrax]

Does it perhaps depend on the site that the buyer is logged into when making the purchase? We've all seen, for example, that if you view a UK private seller's listing on the US site then there's no BPF. So, logically, if the buyer is on the UK site, they'll have the BPF added but if they're on .com or any other country's site then they won't.

[sml192]

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@rainbowtrax wrote:

Does it perhaps depend on the site that the buyer is logged into when making the purchase? We've all seen, for example, that if you view a UK private seller's listing on the US site then there's no BPF. So, logically, if the buyer is on the UK site, they'll have the BPF added but if they're on .com or any other country's site then they won't.

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The wording on the 'Buyer Protection Fee' help page used to reference 'eBay.co.uk' but has now been changed to 'UK-based private sellers' presumably because buyers were circumventing the fee by going to eBay.com.

Old version:

'When you shop on eBay.co.uk, your purchase now always includes Buyer Protection. When you buy from UK-based private sellers, the item price includes a Buyer Protection fee (excluding Cars, Motorcycles & Vehicles, Classified Ads and Property).'

'Who pays the Buyer Protection fee?

The buyer pays the fee to eBay when purchasing on eBay.co.uk from UK private sellers (excluding Cars, Motorcycles & Vehicles, Classified Ads and Property).'

New version:

'When you buy from UK-based private sellers, the item price includes a Buyer Protection fee (excluding Cars, Motorcycles & Vehicles, Classified Ads and Property).' 

'Who pays the Buyer Protection fee?

The buyer pays the fee to eBay when purchasing from UK private sellers (excluding Cars, Motorcycles & Vehicles, Classified Ads and Property)' 

There is now another separate help page aimed specifically at sellers where eBay.co.uk is still mentioned and which makes it quite clear that the BPF applies to all items listed by UK based private sellers on eBay.co.uk:

'When UK-based private sellers list items on eBay.co.uk, we now add a Buyer Protection fee to the item price, which is paid by the buyer to eBay' 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/selling/pricing-items/buyer-protection-information-sellers?id=55...

[ganzdiesel]

There is now another separate help page aimed specifically at sellers where eBay.co.uk is still mentioned and which makes it quite clear that the BPF applies to all items listed by UK based private sellers on eBay.co.uk:

'When UK-based private sellers list items on eBay.co.uk, we now add a Buyer Protection fee to the item price, which is paid by the buyer to eBay' 

That doesnt explain why only my Swiss is being asked for the fee. The other buyers were all based in Germany. I dont have a LUCID registrtion on this account so they could only have seen the items on ebay.co.uk

Also to the best of knowledge Ebay have not advised overseas buyers that they have to pay extra to buy on the UK site.

This is surely a case where we need clarification from someone like dave@ebay after all if we dont know what chance is there of an overseas buyer understanding.

I waiting to hear back from my buyer as to whether they were logged into UK or not.

[algate_0]

I had a sale to Switzerland earlier today. There was no BPF applied. There was however, a VAT charge and a 25p transaction fee.

[sml192]

No, it doesn't explain why only your Swiss buyer is being charged the fee.

My understanding is that the type of protection a buyer receives is determined by the site they make the purchase on (the site they are logged on to), so if they purchase when logged on to ebay.co.uk they receive the protection provided by the UK site and the BPF would, therefore, apply whereas if they purchase when logged on to ebay.de, for example, they would instead receive the protection provided by the German site and the BPF would, therefore, not apply, although that isn't reflected on the help page.

My guess, therefore, is that your German buyers purchased on ebay.de whereas as your Swiss buyer purchased on ebay.co.uk rather than using the Swiss site (ebay.ch).

Hopefully, dave@ebay can clarify whether this is actually the case.

As a side note, as far as I am aware, the LUCID packaging registration is a requirement on all sites when sending to Germany.

[ganzdiesel]

"As a side note, as far as I am aware, the LUCID packaging registration is a requirement on all sites when sending to Germany."

LUCID is required if you want to market to Germany. No LUCID means that my listings would not be visible on Ebay.de or to anyone signed in on Ebay.de & therefore I am not marketing to Germany. It however does not stop a German logging into the UK site & buying. Enforcement is not carried out by Customs but by non-LUCID items on .de being reported to the relevent authority.

I do have a LUCID registration on my business account so probably at a stretch I could use that but Ebay, correctly in my opinion, do not permit the LUCID registration number to be loaded on a private account.

[ganzdiesel]

As from earlier in the year Switzerland started levying an online sales tax. However if my Swiss buyer makes a purchase from my Business postal sales list there is no tax payable as long as the amount including postage is less than CHF62.

[sml192]

Okay, I'm not familiar with exactly how the LUCID packaging registration requirements actually work or how eBay handles it so can't comment on that side of things.

However, I had a look at one of your items (item no. 376049297269) and did a search for it on ebay.de and it does appear on there, without the BPF applied, so your assumption regarding the visibility of your items would appear to be incorrect. 

[papso22]

My understanding was that sellers had to ensure they did not post to Germany and blocked  buyers from Germany in order to avoid any LUCID issues.

[stamp_hammer]

Anyone who uses the checkout at .co.uk will pay the BPF.  Tell your International customers to use their own countries version of the site and the fee won’t be levied against them.

[ganzdiesel]

My understanding was that without a LUCID number Ebay blocked items from being visible to Germany. I have just revisited the LUCID/German Packaging Act requirements and that is correct but only for Business sellers.

The relevent words are "If you're a business seller with buyers based in Germany, you need to make sure you’re compliant with the German Packaging Act." & "The 2019 Packaging Act applies to all businesses selling goods in the German marketplace, both domestic and international." So its doesn't apply to Personal sellers only Business sellers which also explains why @sml192 was able to see the item. Every day is a school day!