Buyer Fraud – Sellers Beware – Ebay Won’t Help

[lexusking]

I have been the victim of a buyer fraud and Ebay say it is not covered by Seller protection

In February 2024 I sold a £4000 Computer part I decided not to use to a buyer who had joined ebay one month before – zero feedback. I discounted the part from £4500 to £4000 to close the deal, he paid, I shipped the part to him by Royal Mail tracked insured service and on the Royal Mail tracking service there is a photo of him signing for the part at his door with his details displayed on the parcel. Ebay have a copy of this photo. Just to clarify he has never said he has not received the part, he has never questioned the condition of the part or the fact that it is the correct part that he bought. The buyer then messaged me asking for a further discount or he would like to return it, I had sold it with a no return policy and explained this and also stated that I could not retrospectively discount it any more. He then contacted Ebay saying he wanted to return it, Ebay opened a case, looked at the details and closed the case in my favour as I had followed ebay’s policies and the sale was conducted correctly. In March 2024 another case was opened by Ebay, saying that an outside financial institution had requested a refund of the full £4000 and until this was resolved my selling account funds would be on hold. I sent details to ebay showing the buyer had received the product correctly and suggested this was a fraud to get the product for nothing and I presume Ebay sent that information to the financial institution. This week Ebay messaged me to say the case had been decided in the buyers favour and that I needed to pay £4000 to ‘refund’ the sale. I contacted customer services to appeal and had a long chat with a service representative who said ebay could do nothing as the claim had come from the buyers funding source through paypal and they were powerless to do anything. I pointed out the buyer still had the part and the agent suggested I contact him to ask for it back – I have done this through messages  but have received no reply. Next week ebay want £4000 from me – bare in mind they took c£500 commission on the sale. So I would be £4500 out of pocket. The agent took my comments seriously and Ebay translated the ‘chat’ to a complaint, and within a few hours ebay responded saying they have followed their policies, refunded me £14 ‘dispute’ but they could do nothing. It has been suggested I contact the financial ombudsman if I am not happy, I will but on their website it says it can take them 6 months to reply. I am also going to contact the Police fraud hotline on Monday but that takes 28 days to get a response. So I lose £4500 to a scammer?  How can this be? Has anyone else fallen foul of a situation like this?

[alf2211]

Im so to here of your issue but sadly over a number of years(6 figure turn over) We had similar issues but for much smaller amounts. Of late a buyer bought an item a sex toy and broke it yet ebay refunded him. Enough was enough and were off to county court. I suggest you do the same if the buyer is credit worthy. Once you have the court order instruct A high Court sheriff who has more power than the vat man. They don't need a warrant to enter as have automatic right to do so with police assistance .   On the flip side I was scammed a few weeks later when a seller altered and address to a collection point not known to me. Clearly I cant collect this as I dont know where it is but tracking shows delivered so Ebay refused to refund. I also used charge back and they spotted the scam instantly from the details given and clawed my money back. Ebay is almost unusable now and were just clearing our out. I advise any seller to take county court action from as little as £35.00 If buyers see the trend they will stop scamming us.   

[motor_salvage_motor]

i would refrain from selling goods of such value through a auction list it as classifieds advert, ive seen alot of sellers do this on items costing 0000s , its not abt savin on fees but on protecting your business, and if the buyer is genuine they arrange to make payment direct to you, you are not avoiding any selling costs as you've paid for a classified advert, u get alot of cars/ van sold like this,  and if the item your selling is perfect someone will buy it the way you want, also with the delivery you could deliver yourself and have the buyer sign a invoice with id so there is no risk of any possible risk of  chargebacks or distance selling nonsense saying received a piece of wood or brick or item came damaged or they didnt have opportunity to inspect it, ive done a few times were delivered the item in person to the buyer asked them to inspect it then send a message through ebay confirming condition/ delivery  and give the collection code,  just a thought to protect your business

[motor_salvage_motor]

if the buyer is overseas then suggest use someone like dhl and insure, dhl xray every item of value to cover themselves and process quicker through customs, i once sold a satnav unit to buyer in mexico for £650 mega wrapped it bubble wrap/ boxed then buyer claims it arrived damaged,  started a claim with dhl who refused it as advised it wasnt caused by them, then arranged for it to be returned realized when it came back there is no way the courier could of damaged it, as sharp blade marks on screen, so buyer must of got excited and hacked at the bubble wrap with stanley knife, apologized to dhl who then sent pic's of xray when was after it was collected  then pictures of xray prior it bring delivered in mexico, sent these to ebay they rejected the buyers claim and refunded my money !!! well thats what they say but most likely just refunded my money and let keep his refund

[third-88]

Just reported buyer->
"i see you did not care at all..
you refunded ,an item is NOT delivered back either.
i need to see proofs!i just woke up,but it states item delivered at 12 noon.
money + item is lost = are you in this fraud together?!"

My projector description:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/375127477583

Ebay did not care to read case - that when sold my projector initially it "sold as seen" that means if remote is not in description/or photo + i put no return ,but when buyer opened a case demanding remote/or a discount as it is "missing",Ebay stepped in and opened a Return case. 
Outrageous! Buyer now been refunded and item is missing (but states as Delivered today),never received it,no delivery,no proofs of it either!

[johnwash1]

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@third-88 wrote:

Just reported buyer->
"i see you did not care at all..
you refunded ,an item is NOT delivered back either.
i need to see proofs!i just woke up,but it states item delivered at 12 noon.
money + item is lost = are you in this fraud together?!"

My projector description:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/375127477583

Ebay did not care to read case - that when sold my projector initially it "sold as seen" that means if remote is not in description/or photo + i put no return ,but when buyer opened a case demanding remote/or a discount as it is "missing",Ebay stepped in and opened a Return case. 
Outrageous! Buyer now been refunded and item is missing (but states as Delivered today),never received it,no delivery,no proofs of it either!

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@third-88 wrote:

Just reported buyer->
"i see you did not care at all..
you refunded ,an item is NOT delivered back either.
i need to see proofs!i just woke up,but it states item delivered at 12 noon.
money + item is lost = are you in this fraud together?!"

My projector description:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/375127477583

Ebay did not care to read case - that when sold my projector initially it "sold as seen" that means if remote is not in description/or photo + i put no return ,but when buyer opened a case demanding remote/or a discount as it is "missing",Ebay stepped in and opened a Return case. 
Outrageous! Buyer now been refunded and item is missing (but states as Delivered today),never received it,no delivery,no proofs of it either!

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Wow!  Just wow!

I have no idea how you have the brass neck to expect sympathy.  You sold it as NEW.  You included 3 stock photos and one of your own.  That one of your own didn't really show much.  The full description was terse beyond belief.

For once I'm totally on the side of your buyer and if I worked in Customer Service I'd ban you.  Can you really not see how outrageous you've been?

Edit to add: I see you have another brand new projector on sale.  All photos stock, none of the item itself, not even of the actual box (if you've never opened it).  And the same useless 'full' description.

I don't often feel anger.  I might need to ask for some of my wife's blood pressure pills.

If you're going to sell, good luck to you.  But put yourself in the shoes of a potential buyer when you list, and treat them the way you'd wish to be treated yourself.  Can you not figure that out?

[third-88]

the case was not opened doubting any of your concern,but for a part that was "missing" that of course NOT.

photo perfectly shown an item without "remote".
Buyer never contacted to ask details.

I see you like wasting time,too

[papso22]

One of your photos of the box shows the remote, with new as the category the buyer was right to expect a remote.

[johnwash1]

You've answered my question.  You can't figure it out.

And I'm going to take a guess that you're not even going to review the other listing of a projector, the one that hasn't yet sold.

[sml192]

Items sold online cannot possibly be 'sold as seen' for the very reason that the buyer has not seen the actual item.  An item is sold solely on the basis of the description/photos provided so ensuring that they are accurate and as complete as possible is vital.  Any defects/damage or missing components must be clearly highlighted.

Buyer's do not need to contact to ask for details as they are fully protected by eBay's Money Back Guarantee, nor should they need to as all the information they require should be in the listing. 

Unfortunately, your listing failed on many counts (listing as new when it was in fact used, relying on stock photos instead of actual photos of the item especially for the main photo, not highlighting the missing remote or the damage to the box, not providing any other details, etc.).  We all make mistakes, learning from them is the important part. 

Put the time and effort into your listing and you will generally reap the reward but try and cut corners and you will invariably end up paying the price as you have discovered.

The fact that the item shows as having been delivered back to you when it hasn't is a separate matter that you will need to take up with the carrier.  You are actually lucky that eBay required the item to be returned to you at all as they will often just refund without the need to return if the buyer has to ask them to step in and help. 

[cyclingjason090]

Your "bulletproof " vest is no match for a bullet either,  the label states bladed weapons. That's potentially playing with someone's life

[sml192]

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@cyclingjason090 wrote:

Your "bulletproof " vest is no match for a bullet either,  the label states bladed weapons. That's potentially playing with someone's life

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Actually, the label states 'Ballistic Level II' and 'Edged Blade Level I' so it's both.  'Ballistic Level II' relates to handguns. 

[third-88]

nope. not edited add either. nowhere seen.

what do you smoke...

[third-88]

we had conversation on the phone. Ebay staff should not be choosing sides,but strictly looking onto facts.

[sml192]

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@third-88 wrote:

nope. not edited add either. nowhere seen.

what do you smoke...

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You are right that none of your photos actually show the remote for the projector, only those for the fire/roku sticks that it is compatible with.  However, I believe that the projector is supposed to come with a remote, at least according to the description on Amazon which is where you say you bought it from, so the fact that one was not included in the sale should really have been mentioned. 

[sml192]

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@third-88 wrote:

we had conversation on the phone. Ebay staff should not be choosing sides,but strictly looking onto facts.

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Unfortunately, eBay return requests/cases are for the most part fully automated and as eBay never sees the item, and the burden of proof lies with the seller, the vast majority will end up being found in the buyer's favour.  May not be fair but it is just one of the risks of selling online hence the adage 'Don't sell anything you can't afford to lose'.   Making sure that your items are properly described will help to mitigate the risks. 

[third-88]

it was not present, i never questioned that.
all projectors i got had no remotes,so by all the meaning - I NEVER ASSUME/PRESUME

[papso22]

Clearly you won't be helped.  Good luck with your future sales.

[ethical_merchant]

I am curious to know whether this got resolved. I am considering an offer for some furniture from a US buyer, who has very limited comments (zero feedback) against thier profile and I'm keen to avoid the scenario you have described. 

[papso22]

I suggest you read the thread!

Lovely chair by the way.  I would not send that to the US under any circumstances. 

[igbyred-1]

Hello, I am in this situation at the moment.  I would advise any Seller to remember that they have statutory rights and DO NOT have to comply with Ebay decisions which are made unilaterally on behalf of the Seller.  Legally, Ebay has no right to do this.

If you find yourself in this situation, remove all payment details from your account and contact your bank to block the last card which will remain on your account - Ebay blocks this from being deleted - as Ebay will try to  reclaim the money directly from your bank account to pay the fraudster!