Buyer Fraud – Sellers Beware – Ebay Won’t Help

[lexusking]

I have been the victim of a buyer fraud and Ebay say it is not covered by Seller protection

In February 2024 I sold a £4000 Computer part I decided not to use to a buyer who had joined ebay one month before – zero feedback. I discounted the part from £4500 to £4000 to close the deal, he paid, I shipped the part to him by Royal Mail tracked insured service and on the Royal Mail tracking service there is a photo of him signing for the part at his door with his details displayed on the parcel. Ebay have a copy of this photo. Just to clarify he has never said he has not received the part, he has never questioned the condition of the part or the fact that it is the correct part that he bought. The buyer then messaged me asking for a further discount or he would like to return it, I had sold it with a no return policy and explained this and also stated that I could not retrospectively discount it any more. He then contacted Ebay saying he wanted to return it, Ebay opened a case, looked at the details and closed the case in my favour as I had followed ebay’s policies and the sale was conducted correctly. In March 2024 another case was opened by Ebay, saying that an outside financial institution had requested a refund of the full £4000 and until this was resolved my selling account funds would be on hold. I sent details to ebay showing the buyer had received the product correctly and suggested this was a fraud to get the product for nothing and I presume Ebay sent that information to the financial institution. This week Ebay messaged me to say the case had been decided in the buyers favour and that I needed to pay £4000 to ‘refund’ the sale. I contacted customer services to appeal and had a long chat with a service representative who said ebay could do nothing as the claim had come from the buyers funding source through paypal and they were powerless to do anything. I pointed out the buyer still had the part and the agent suggested I contact him to ask for it back – I have done this through messages  but have received no reply. Next week ebay want £4000 from me – bare in mind they took c£500 commission on the sale. So I would be £4500 out of pocket. The agent took my comments seriously and Ebay translated the ‘chat’ to a complaint, and within a few hours ebay responded saying they have followed their policies, refunded me £14 ‘dispute’ but they could do nothing. It has been suggested I contact the financial ombudsman if I am not happy, I will but on their website it says it can take them 6 months to reply. I am also going to contact the Police fraud hotline on Monday but that takes 28 days to get a response. So I lose £4500 to a scammer?  How can this be? Has anyone else fallen foul of a situation like this?

[*vyolla*]

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@lexusking wrote:

So I lose £4500 to a scammer?  How can this be? Has anyone else fallen foul of a situation like this?

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Yes, loads. The Ombudsman and the Police will be able to do nothing here to help you get your item or your money back.

Bottom line is, there is no protection from a not as described chargeback, and the buyer does end up with the item.

All you can do now is to contact the buyer and let them know that they need to return the item to you and ask if they'd prefer a payment sent to them to cover the cost of Royal Mail Special delivery or if they'd prefer you to buy and send them an online returns label. If they don't respond, you're in legal territory, but that's a sticky place.

[lexusking]

OK I appreciate that - waht is a 'not as described chargeback' - that has never been communicated to me by the buyer or Ebay?

[myriad*seller]

If the buyer alleges the item is not as described they are guaranteed a refund

Doesn't matter whether their allegations are true or not, the card issuer guarantees a refund, and they don't require the buyer to return the item first either.

It is best to accept returns via eBay as at least you get the item back, putting no returns means nothing, as you have discovered. The buyer can force a return and a full refund. 

As you didnt accept his return request you stand to lose the item, the seller fees AND the money. Accepting returns via eBay would at least have put you back where you started as you would have had your seller fees returned when you refunded the buyer...

[geosacha007 · Accepted solution]

You will need to go to the small claims court to get your item back or repayment.  But you need to follow a specific process so consult citizens advice to make sure you get it right. 

[*vyolla*]

Payments funded with a debit or credit card offer their own buyer protection, this is known as a chargeback.

It's outside of eBay's juristiction - if the card provider tells them to refund then they must refund. 

[lexusking]

I will look into it tomorrow thanks

[lexusking]

Well actually I normally do accept returns and certainly take anything back anybody is not happy with, issue was this is a specific part at a very good price and I did not want it back when I sold it as wanted to use the money for something else and now this has happened on this one part. So agree with advice on general returns.

[lexusking]

Right I understand this - the bit that's missing for me though is the seller protection. I have sold a part on ebay's terms, all correct and received etc. The CC company has done the chargeback for reasons we don't know but thats immaterial. But the buyer has the part, I have done nothing incorrectly as far as I know - why should I be left holding the baby and why does seller protection not cover this 'fraud'. I don't need a load of reasons as we know where we sit with everything now. I was just not aware this could happen.

So need to start fighting away tomorrow to get a resolution so I don't lose £4500!

Thanks for all replies

[technthread]

Make sure you keep screenshots of the delivery photo and other evidence in case it is not retrievable later. 

[*vyolla*]

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@lexusking wrote:

Right I understand this - the bit that's missing for me though is the seller protection. I have sold a part on ebay's terms, all correct and received etc. The CC company has done the chargeback for reasons we don't know but thats immaterial. But the buyer has the part, I have done nothing incorrectly as far as I know - why should I be left holding the baby and why does seller protection not cover this 'fraud'. I don't need a load of reasons as we know where we sit with everything now. I was just not aware this could happen.

So need to start fighting away tomorrow to get a resolution so I don't lose £4500!

Thanks for all replies

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Card providers are outside of eBay's juristiction, eBay does offer seller protection against an item not received chargeback if the seller has provided a tracking number showing delivery to the delivery address showing on the buyers order, in that instance they'll make sure that the seller doesn't lose out, but there is no protection against a not as described chargeback, there never has been, no selling platform can offer it, they have no authority with the card providers.

Your fight is now with your buyer to try and get your item back.

[arkwebus]

. If the seller now [as @*vyolla* says] returns the item it is not theft or a scam.

It may be very disappointing as you will not get back your eBay fees as you would if you had accepted the eBay case

@lexusking 

[lexusking]

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Obvioulsy if he sends it back (no reply yet to that request!) then the issue is much less

Hindsight is a wonderful thing 🙂

[lexusking]

Yes I realise - it's just something I have never come across in 25 years on Ebay and I have never done a chargback myself on one of my CC's so somehow just had no knowledge this could happen selling on Ebay. But I understand the big picture a lot better now.

Thanks to all replies and all very helpful

[*vyolla*]

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@lexusking wrote:

Yes I realise - it's just something I have never come across in 25 years on Ebay and I have never done a chargback myself on one of my CC's so somehow just had no knowledge this could happen selling on Ebay. But I understand the big picture a lot better now.

Thanks to all replies and all very helpful

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I'm sorry that this has happened to you, and for such a large amount of money too.

I have issued chargebacks myself (3, to date) when it's been the only route to getting my money back, two were for non-receipt of items due to misdelivery and one was an international not as described item where the seller was being really unhelpful, and I have seen lots of questions both here and on other sites from sellers who have received a chargeback. Bottom line is, a not as described chargeback can't be fought because the payment is simply reversed, there's no adjudication or appeal process involved.

As I mentioned before, it's the buyer you need to go after now to get your item back. Politely message them and ask them what kind of arrangements they'd like to make to send the item back now that they've had a refund. Ask if they want you to buy them a pre-paid Royal Mail Special Delivery returns label or if they want to make their own arrangements. If they don't respond to a message send a letter Royal Mail Special Delivery asking the same and keep a note of the tracking number and screenshot the delivery status.

Bear in mind that everything you do now has to be clean and concise because it may form part of your legal case.

You may want to spend £4 on Land Registry checking to see if your buyer owns the property they live in or if they're just renting. 

The Consumer Action Group (first site that comes up on Google) may be able to offer some free legal advice.

[*knight-rider*]

Just bare in mind, if you do go the small claims route, if you win the judgement, that's all you do get, a judgement, the court can't and doesn't force payment. If they didn't pay you after the judgement, you'd need to pay out again for the services of a bailiff, which i think is around £100.

[myriad*seller]

If the bailiff that you pay £100 (per visit) has no luck eg occupant refuses entry (as they do not have right to force entry to private premises) then you need to get High Court bailiffs to go which cost over £400 per visit but they can actually force entry to private property and seize goods, unlike the first bailiffs 

[lexusking]

Thanks vyolla

[4_bathrooms]

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@lexusking wrote:

The buyer then messaged me asking for a further discount or he would like to return it, I had sold it with a no return policy and explained this and also stated that I could not retrospectively discount it any more. He then contacted Ebay saying he wanted to return it, Ebay opened a case, looked at the details and closed the case in my favour as I had followed ebay’s policies and the sale was conducted correctly. In March 2024 another case was opened by Ebay, saying that an outside financial institution had requested a refund of the full £4000 and until this was resolved my selling account funds would be on hold. 

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What was the reason shown for the first return request? It will say something like "Your buyer has requested to return this item becuase..." or "Your buyer has opened a request because...".

Also, what was the exact reason the chargeback (payment dispute) opened for? It will be something like "item not as described", "item not received", "transaction not recognised" etc.  

[lexusking]

1st Dispute - buyer wanted to return - Ebay Wording:

You can't work things out with the buyer

Conclusion

Case details

OutcomeOutcome The case was decided in your favour.The case was decided in your favour. More detailsMore details We received tracking information that shows the item was delivered to the buyer's address. This case will not affect your seller performance. Any Feedback left for this transaction will be removed.

2nd Case

Dispute ID5006269649

Reason: The buyer hasn't received a refund

Dispute amount £4,000.00

Here's the dispute outcome

We've reviewed your appeal and determined that this dispute is not eligible for eBay Seller Protection. However, as a courtesy, we've refunded the dispute fee of £14.00 to you.

My words: The buyer still has the item and somehow has got the dispute through his CC saying he has not received a refund - for what?

And Ebay have sided with the CC compnay

Madness is it not?