Buyer Claimed Empty Box - eBay promised me a refund then said actually no.

[retirementready]

Hello,

I am absolutely astounded by eBay's lack of ownership over this case.

I will try to be brief and concise:

5/12 Sold Macbook Pro

6/12 Macbook Pro Delivered

6/12 Buyer Claimed Box was empty.

6/12 Immediately replied to case supplying photos prior to despatch of item on weight scale, packaging on scale, box weights etc and confirmation of Post Office weight when posted.  I also rang eBay to confirm receipt of the above and seek advice.  I was promised I had done everything required to be protected.

9/12 After no reply from the buyer I asked it to be escalated to a case.

Throughout the case, I checked in multiple times to see what was happening, throughout, I was told eBay has my back and I am protected and not to worry.  I also asked if the buyer had sent anything in to prove their claim.  I was repeatedly told no - which to me is odd when they are arguing the toss over a £2000 item and they, unlike me, are not absolutely chomping at the bit and providing everything to substantiate their claim ASAP.

20/12  Case closed in Buyers Favour stating: Documentation from Law Enforcement Shows the box was empty.  I guess a police officer must have been stood next to them when they opened it.

20/12 Appeal submitted and I called eBay to be told by 2 x separate operators my appeal has been successful and I will be granted a full refund.

22/12 Rang to chase refund and was told it needs to be signed off by a supervisor which hasn't happened. 

23/12 Rang to chase when I would get my refund and was told actually I might not get it.

26/12 Told my appeal has bene rejected and to contact Royal Mail.  I have and they have said because the item was signed for and not rejected there isn't anything they can do.

26/12 I also got a reply from the buyer for the first time and all they sent me was a box on a weighing scale showing it was less than I sent.  I am guessing this is the evidence has refunded the customer on but I do not understand how I am not protected here or how eBay can just abut turn on my refund.  

I have spoken to their Customer Service Manager and he said 'it isn't policy so dispute you have been told by several people you will be getting your refund they were wrong' so I am basically am eBay training exercise.

I am £2000 out of pocket, I believe the buyer has the item and eBay has absolutely shafted me.  Does anyone have any advice or any similar experience they can help me with to recoup my money?  Needless to say, our family Christmas was pretty much cancelled as this was our funds for it.

Thank you.

[sicari_90]

Keep all contacts with eBay in writing. Only use the chat function 

[sicari_90]

Have you tried raising a theft case with cops? It won't go anywhere most likely but 

[retirementready]

Yes they have just said it's a civil matter. 

[retirementready]

Their feedback was 100% but nothing in the last 12 months. 

[myriad*seller]

All buyers have 100% feedback

Buyers cannot receive negative feedback 

The only feedback sellers can give to buyers is positive, so it is not possible for buyers to have negative or neutral feedback for buying.

Sellers are the only ones who can receive negatives/neutral. 

So you cannot rely on buyer feedback as a guide, as it can only be positive feedback! 

[vintagechinashop]

I’m not sure if you would be able to do this but have you investigated taking the matter to a county court small claims ( I don’t know the limit on these type of claims ). I’m sure the onus would then be on the buyer to prove they received an empty box. 
this must be so stressful for you  

[lighting_signs_and_vintage]

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@vintagechinashop wrote:

I’m not sure if you would be able to do this but have you investigated taking the matter to a county court small claims ( I don’t know the limit on these type of claims ). I’m sure the onus would then be on the buyer to prove they received an empty box. 
this must be so stressful for you  

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A claim, which will cost you money upfront, were it to be 'won' is a hollow victory without enforcement. Which you will not get. Scammers will ignore the court paperwork, so sure, you can get a default win. But then, even if you could locate the scammers they will not have a bean you can prove is their own to levy against. And a switched on scammer might even appeal the judgement for further stalling (unlikely, they'll be long gone from whatever address the claim went to).

[podlingsmum2007]

I looked it up. It costs about £115 for a claim of £2000. File it against eBay as they refunded the buyer 

[fassiphone]

As soon as I saw 'Macbook Pro', I rolled my eyes.

When will people ever learn...

[lighting_signs_and_vintage]

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@podlingsmum2007 wrote:

I looked it up. It costs about £115 for a claim of £2000. File it against eBay as they refunded the buyer 

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And lose £115 + expenses + more as their in house counsel claims the max money back having also had the case moved to London courts. Or, just as likely, eBay ignore claim, you get a default judgement, then when you request the money, they ignore that too and send a bailiff, suddenly they appeal to the judge, and rightly or wrongly judges always seem to give them the benefit of the doubt and its back to square one.

FOS is free.

[crg_music]

Very sad but true. 

Saying this I have massive sympathy for op.

What is needed at this stage is if ebay are going to make all the money they do on such items they need to provide a middle man service who the seller sends to, the middle man checks the item is what is listed, secure + tamper proof packs it and delivers to the customer via its own secure service, effectively removing the possibility for such scams. Obviously wont be cheap but as far as im concerned there is no way in a million years im selling anything high end tech on here as it stands and they should be treating this problem as a priority, its a weekly thing that an honest seller gets ripped off.

As a rule all the stuff scammers go for is extremely easy to sell locally so I see little point unless you are a business in which case im sure you have your methods and couriers etc so you dont get stung but for Joe Bloggs 80% of its value is always better than 0%.

[fassiphone]

I hear you and very much agree.

However, people need to do their due diligence and accept some responsibility when they end up being scammed.

I'm not even a fan of Apple products, but have known for many years that selling such items (as well as smartphones and laptops) on eBay is a colossal minefield.

Some people need to stop being blinded by their own greed, drop the '100% immunity' mentality and become more prudent.

[ed_58611]

I submit that the most prudent course of action would have been to send this £2000 piece of desirable tech via a fully insured courier rather than by a Royal Mail service with top line cover of only £150.

[magpiecorner1]

Sorry about this.

Have you spoken to Royal Mail, especially the sorting office that delivered the item.  You would need to write for best results or go to see your own local sorting office manager, they can speak to each other.

Find out if there is any record of the weight, it will be on the tracking label but find out if the weight is registered any other time enroute.  The buyer is claiming that a Royal Mail worker stole it, serious accusation.  Worth checking.

Also, did you give the police the machine number when you reported the theft and did you report it was theft by Royal Mail, which is what the buyer is claiming.  The tracking shows there was something inside the box when it started it's journey and the buyer has stated in writing that the box was delivered empty.  Ergo an accusation of Royal Mail theft.  Hence the recommendation to discuss this with the buyer's sorting office manager, obviously with your own thoughts but stress that you would have to pursue this.  And I'm pretty sure postal theft is not a civil matter.  And pretty sure this isn't the first 'empty box' delivered to that address.  

And ask the manufacturer if there is anything they can do to locate or disable their machines.  You never know.

And look them up on social media, you just never know what you might see in photos.  

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

Problem is this scenario is quite uncommon in most categories , plus its a logistical and legal  nightmare to solve,

 So the authorities and marketplace's  kick it about until it fades away,

a signature by the buyer on delivery stating the item is complete , may help

but  then what happens when they dispute that signature was not genuine?

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

A video / photos / weight of the despatch  mean absolutely zero 

in a dispute ,

proving the delivery is the issue