eBay's false estimated delivery dates, now several messages from buyers not happy.

[lincolnshiremarine]

I have been going on about this issue like a broken record.  I have reported it several times and even been on the community chat several times.  Ebay claim the EDD's are working fine.  They are not.

Ebay are giving buyers delivery dates as same day deliveries, next day deliveries.  Even when buyers have  have selected the free, three day delivery, they are including non working days as delivery dates being Saturday and Sundays.

I know that other sellers are being affected by this too, and have reported it too.

However, I am now spending hours replying to buyers whom think their parcel is late based on ebays estimated delivery dates. 

This leaves my business open for negative feedback and the issue of asking ebay to remove it.

The messages I am getting from buyers are:

" Hi not to pleased due to the fact I ordered this part from your company because of the delivery time and it’s not happened! Hopefully this item will turn up soon"

"parcel not arrived yet ??"

Both of those cases where when they purchased over a weekend, and they were dropped of at the parcel shop for collection the same day of purchase. However, this was over the weekend.  Ebay tracking has said to expect the delivery on Monday, which is wrong, as they included weekends as the courier collection and delivery days.

When you look on the couriers webiste the delivery dates are correct and ebays are incorrect.

We have had the same issue with Royal Mail tracked on ebay too.

How many more sellers are now getting messages like this on a daily basis, and what are you telling the buyers.?

I have been selling on ebay for 16 years and we dispatch the items on time, but, this ebay EDD are on another level now.

We look like we are fabricating delivery dates just to obtain a sale, and although we have tried tweaking the postage days etc, it does not help.

marco@ebay

Katie@ebay

Dave@ebay

[4_bathrooms]

---

@swat090346 wrote:

I bought a hedge trimmer on Saturday 3/Aug. On the listing it says expexcted delivery 9th - 10th Aug which I was quite satisfied with. Ebay in their wisdom put a note on the listing  free postage in 2-3 days.

WRONG the seller said 9-10th which is a least 6 days.

---

Unless the seller sent you a direct message stating delivery was expected 9th - 10th August the seller actually didn't state anything at all; eBay alone provided every single delivery estimate you saw.

This just demonstrates the extent of eBay's unwelcome interference. A buyer is shown often increasingly optimistic (and more often than not, unrealistic) delivery estimates from their initial viewing of the listing through their committal to purchase; all of which eBay will hold the seller responsible for. Meanwhile, the buyer becomes confused and frustrated as they have no idea when their item will actually arrive. The buyer's only line of communication is with the seller who is made to look like an idiot or a liar (or both).

But don't worry, it is all working as designed.

[swat090346]

It was on the sellers listing that I ordered from, see the screenshot it says 9th to 10th. Ebay put the free delivery in2-3 days, not the seller

[technthread]

It is a bit surprising that eBay worked out the original estimate how they did because Black & Decker have a 1 day dispatch policy.  But as it sounds like it still isn't posted today they are behind and maybe eBay have seen this happens a lot so they extended the delivery estimate you were first shown. As soon as tracking is uploaded the estimate can then go haywire and as they are a big firm who are valued by eBay they probably won't have any concerns over the estimate like a normal eBay seller would. 

[a45heaven]

As soon as tracking is uploaded the estimate can then go haywire

so maybe avoid tracking info then?

ebay seem happy with what they show to buyers, so thats not going to change.

[technthread]

Maybe but I think it opens up the possibility of an anxious buyer who thinks the item hasn't actually been posted. Especially if they have been messed around by other sellers before.

It irritates me when I buy something with a tracked postage option and the seller withholds it from me. I don't know whether I need to be home to take delivery and I class that a bad buying experience. I used to buy packaging from a company who did this all the time so I binned them off for one who uploads it instantly. I know where I stand and don't need to worry about rolls of bubble wrap being left at my front door or being imposed on a poor neighbour.

The only time I won't upload the tracking is a Royal Mail standard letter as I think sensible buyers know it could just have had a stamp put on it. As a buyer, I don't mind sellers not adding the 'tracking' on a standard large letter either as I get it, many don't get a scan and it can encourage an INR case. 

[4_bathrooms]

---

@swat090346 wrote:

It was on the sellers listing that I ordered from, see the screenshot it says 9th to 10th. Ebay put the free delivery in2-3 days, not the seller

---

The point I was making was the seller did not put 9th to 10th on their listing; eBay did. eBay put their own estimated delivery date(s) on the listing, in the sales record, in the messages they sent you...

Seller's have no control over any estimated delivery date that is shown to buyers. Even the first one you saw on the listing before you clicked the "Buy It Now" button was "calculated" by eBay. The seller you purchased from had absolutely no control whatsoever over any estimated delivery date you were shown.

[a45heaven]

I can understand your concerns - on a level playing ground Tracking can be useful, when all involved act responsibly. When one party uses a Mail companies performance to penalise the sellers, then the tracking becomes less attractive to be provided.

With the introduction of  Tracked 24Hour by Royal Mail, no tracking number is available to the Seller unless sourced on-line or from the paper receipts obtained the day after mailing ( Drop & Go Mailing), also  (forget the integration of ebay with Royal Mail to auto provide the information - grossly unreliable and very prone to glitches as we all know).

[4_bathrooms]

---

@a45heaven wrote:

As soon as tracking is uploaded the estimate can then go haywire

so maybe avoid tracking info then?

Even if you don't upload tracking eBay still think they know better than what you state.

I don't upload tracking because if I do eBay (incorrectly) marks every order as despatched late. As eBay's own "tracking bar" doesn't integrate with the online tracking of hauliers (only Royal Mail and couriers) I don't have a delivery scan eBay will accept to avoid the "orange blobs" for late delivery. If I upload tracking I therefore risk having a seller level of "below standard" and the "4%" FVF fine that attracts.

As mentioned earlier this means I inevitably receive some INR requests when buyers don't receive their items by the unrealistic EDD eBay (not myself) told them their items would arrive by. This doesn't affect my seller level, doesn't run the risk of a "4%" FVF fine and when I'm rated "very high" (around 5%) for INR cases opened in my service metrics eBay actually adds time on to their fantasy EDDs making them realistic!

You really couldn't make it up.     

[technthread]

I'm so glad to be offloading all of my stock and winding down my online selling because of issues like this. I won't miss the buyer confusion and seller frustration, I may just be jaded now but I wasn't bothered by it a few years ago. 

Funnily enough (just looking at what you sell) I have just decided to send all of my 45's to an auction house to get rid after going to get my music max mailers out of storage and finding them mould damaged from being sat for years in a cold area. An expensive lesson learned looking at how much they cost these days 😑

[station13thirteen]

---

@technthread wrote:

The only time I won't upload the tracking is a Royal Mail standard letter as I think sensible buyers know it could just have had a stamp put on it. As a buyer, I don't mind sellers not adding the 'tracking' on a standard large letter either as I get it, many don't get a scan and it can encourage an INR case. 

---

Standard RM letters don't have tracking numbers (neither do large letters), they just have reference numbers, so we never upload these to the buyer as they are of no use whatsoever to the buyer. And only large letters are (sometimes - not always) scanned on delivery. So both these reference numbers are totally pointless to upload to the buyer, and if anything will just create confusion and ultimately hassle for us as the seller. 

You may have no choice in this matter if you purchase you RM postage labels via eBay, as they love to interfere in everything, and is one reason why we avoid eBay postage. But if you do as we do and purchase your RM labels via the RM website, then you do at least have control of what information you provide to the buyer.  And as said, we never upload 'reference' numbers, only genuine 'tracking' numbers.

We actually find it quitte appalling that eBay will imply that refrence numbers are tracking numbers. This is not only misleading to the buyer, but down right wrong!

[technthread]

With large letters, it is a tricky one as you're right about the cons but the upside is if it does get a scan on time it prevents a buyer from incorrectly leaving feedback and ticking that it arrived after the EDD.

I put them on for that reason and (maybe over cautiously), to show eBay if they do an account review on me that I do actually post things out. I like seeing the delivery tick on my orders to see how regularly those large letters were getting a scan. 

With the standard letters yeah the seller is on a hiding to nothing by uploading those references. It's not worth the time and effort to copy and paste them from click and drop (I'm someone who still hasn't been able to link my eBay to it I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I gave up).

[station13thirteen]

---

@a45heaven wrote:

With the introduction of  Tracked 24Hour by Royal Mail, no tracking number is available to the Seller unless sourced on-line or from the paper receipts obtained the day after mailing ( Drop & Go Mailing), also  (forget the integration of ebay with Royal Mail to auto provide the information - grossly unreliable and very prone to glitches as we all know).

---

Royal Mail 24 'tracked' has been available for ages? Am I missing something with Drop & Go? Do you not print out your own labels at home and then drop off?

We use the RM website for our postage, and as the 48 or 24 'tracked' label is created, we simply copy the tracking number on the label. And as RM automatically downloads the label to our PC as it is created, we can copy the label tracking number at anytime thereafter that suits us. 

[station13thirteen]

---

@technthread wrote:

With the standard letters yeah the seller is on a hiding to nothing by uploading those references. It's not worth the time and effort to copy and paste them from click and drop (I'm someone who still hasn't been able to link my eBay to it I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I gave up).

---

We have never even tried to link our RM postage with ebay, and would not dream of trying. As far as we are concerned, the less involvement eBay has with our business the better. Just somethiong else for them to screw up!

[technthread]

Haha true. I have dreaded them asking for proof of postage one day so always uploaded most tracking or reference numbers to avoid it.

I am going to be listing a lot of coins and banknotes soon. Most will be under £5 value and sent as a letter so there will be a lot of marked dispatched only orders soon, I'm not concerned now as the account should be dormant in the next few months and they can do what they want with it. 

[outbounce_1290]

anita@ebay

FDD's..sorry  EDD's working as intended eh..explain this please...

I now messag eall buyers advising them to disregard th edelivery info supplied by ebay as its self evidently wrong..

ALL my recent buyers over the past 3 months at least have been given a delivery date of potentially the next day at worst the following day.

Bear in mind that I post using RM tracked 48 - the clue here is 48..thats 48 hours as in 2 days.

Whatever "dynamic" calculations you choose to "calculate", couriers recent performance, geographic location of buyer compared to my location and any other "Smoke and Mirror" nonsense you elect to add in to the mix doesn't alter the fact that its a "48 hour" service not a 24 hour service.

But the attached image really tops it all..

posted today 13th August

date shown to buyer for delivery....13th August

Looking forward to your explanation of how the "dynamic EDD" is working as it expected..

[theelench]

I very much doubt that you will get any explanation.

But what a coincidence!!!!!

Your buyers are told the same as mine and I post using RM 2nd Class with an RM delivery estimate of 2 - 3 days.

Although I must admit ebay hasn't (yet) gone so far as to 'calculate' the a buyer will get delivery on the same day as I post it their parcel.

But then that could always be a glitch in their otherwise "Working Perfectly" calculation 🤣

[a-b-cds]

they use it as an excuse to put our money on hold for a few days so they can use our own money to give them interest on it, hence the stupid delivery dates

[dch2112011]

I have just looked at the example you posted - it is an absolutely awful estimate of delivery - I looked at not only what you have published but also the official terms and conditions for RM48 tracked by Royal Mail dated June 2024

You received the order Sat 10th August  which is now officially not classed as a working day by Royal Mail for all services except special delivery and RM24  tracked business account holders (limited areas only)

The only way ebay could estimate delivery for the 13th August is to either wrongly assume a Saturday is a working day for  all Royal Mail customers  calculating Saturday, Monday delivery Tuesday 13th August earliest estimate.

In reality the very earliest delivery could be the 14th if the item was dispatched and received before RM cut off time on the Monday 12th which is the very next working day for RM48 tracked  

RM do offer Sunday delivery for RM24 and special delivery guaranteed which means that both Saturday and Sunday may be classed as working days for business account holders  which may go part of the way to explaining why ebay estimate deliveries up to two days earlier than they should if they only use the one set of working day criteria for all products ?

extract from RM T&C which apply to non account customers (I assume this means non credit account businesses based on RM definitions  ) 

Acceptance
Time
the latest time in a Working Day that a Drop Off Point will accept the Handover of an Item on the
basis that such Item will on that same Working Day be collected by us from that Drop Off Point and
inserted into our network for delivery

3. Our delivery of the Products and our responsibilities
3.1 We will only deliver Items on Working Days

3.3.2 Non Account Tracked 48 and Non Account Tracked 48 with Signature, we will aim but
do not guarantee to deliver your Item within 2 - 3 Working Days of the day on which
you Handover your Item provided such Handover occurs prior to the Latest Acceptance
Time applicable to the Drop Off Point where you provide your Item to us (and if you
provide your Item to us after the relevant Latest Acceptance Time, then we aim but do
not guarantee to deliver your Item within 3 - 4 Working Days of that day).

3.4 The estimated delivery times stated in clause 3.3 do not apply to any Items with any of the
following delivery addresses or postcodes (and, to avoid doubt, in each of these instances, we
do not provide any target time for delivery):

3.4.1 any Items addressed to any British Forces Post Office;

3.4.3 in relation to Non Account Tracked 48, to any of the following postcodes: BT, GY, HS,
IM, JE, KW, PA60-75, PA78, PH30, PH41-PH44 and ZE2-ZE3.

[theelench]

An excellent explanation, but that's why there are 5 other named factors that can be 'taken into consideration' plus the unspecified 'other factors' that can also be included.

One, or another, or a combination of several will be used to get around whatever the delivery company says.

So I usually post next day and sometimes even the same as an order is paid for, but NOT always.  A medical appointment may result in my taking the full two day dispatch period that I state on my listings.

That is always ignored, my best ever 'previous dispatch performance' is what ebay 'considers' and deducts 2 days from its calculation.  So my calculation of 2 + 3 days = 5 days from payment to delivery is ignored.  It adds RM's best estimate of 2 days to my (occasional) same day dispatch and gets Delivery date of Tuesday - Wednesday.  The day after I posted the item, on Monday.

This is nothing to do with accuracy.  It's ALL about reducing the number of days between payment and delivery.  That's why there are so many factors ebay can consider, so there's always at least one (or more) ways that ebay can shave days off it's FDD.

That's why they rely on vague explanations and refuse to demonstrate their calculation based on numbers. 

[dch2112011]

I totally agree ebay are not exactly being open and honest as to how they arrive at estimated dates so it is left to members to try and piece it together, but simply based on the estimated delivery dates it appears that same day dispatch is the norm whether this is used because ' other members' within a category dispatch same day or not is unknown officially but indications are that this is the case - Amazon do exactly the same - even offering next day delivery from sellers who do not offer such a service - 

The Working day scenario seems logical when you work back to order date - ebay always claim they calculate on the working day given to them by the carrier - which is fine when the criteria for all standards of post are treated the same but where different standards are applied depending on the type of customer or account held  or class of service it causes a real problem.

I am guessing but we are a credit account customer and certainly the estimates are pretty good  for us and ebay offering postal services probably have similar working day criteria which leads me to think that the standard being used as a one glove fits all system is the 6 day working week applied to credit account holders.

Of course this is all 2 and 2 guesswork but having read through what members here are saying it seems a likely scenario -  the depending on location criteria may refer to the postcodes RM exclude from delivery estimates or areas carriers claim longer delivery times for. 

Your own dispatch times could effect the estimated delivery  which seems to adjust once the API starts to update on ebay ?

If this is the case ebay will not be able to change how the algorithm works  without a major  overhaul - it could simply be that when the algorithm was first designed it assumes all customers are treated the same by the carrier  for all classes of post so there is only the one option for working days so one is selected.

The claim that this works for the majority may be true in that all the medium to big customers will benefit from the 6 day working week and most will dispatch same day Monday to Saturday 

I am not sure anything will be done until ebay acknowledge the problem and even then will they think it worthwhile or a priority if the benefit is for 10% of sellers - who knows ?