Item Swap and What Should Sellers do?

[ipk-sol]

I'm at a loss right now and would appreciate an explanation from someone at eBay.

We recently sold a new item that was clearly shown in the photos as immaculate, still in its manufacturer's wrapper, and with all accessories sealed. The buyer immediately opened a return request upon receiving it and sent back a disgusting, food-stained item that was fully dinged up, but in the same box we sent them.

So a clear case of an item swap.

We never accused the buyer; we simply asked if they had accidentally sent us a different item, attached photos, and followed eBay's process for reporting the issue. The case was closed, and the buyer left negative feedback claiming we had sent them a disgusting, used item.

Now, eBay concierge says we have no proof and is essentially suggesting we scammed the buyer. The fact that we have clear photos of the item we sent, and that we sell thousands of items every month, seems to be insufficient for eBay. It feels as if when a scammer attacks the integrity of a business, eBay simply washes its hands of the matter.

Could someone please explain why we should bother putting so much effort into the description and photos of an item if none of it matters?

Furthermore, can eBay please confirm that the correct procedure for sellers is to stay quiet, not to report any swaps, scams, or similar behaviour, to make sure we avoid negative feedback that can never be removed?

[tressygirl]

I would contact CS again,  and ask them to review this with the proof of photos of the item you sent,  and the one you received.  The buyer's profile they may wish to check too,  to see if their returns number is disproportionately high.

I strongly suggest only contacting CS first thing in the morning when the lines first open for ' live agents'  there's more chance of Dublin answering.  Only speak to them,  they tend Not to just read answers from a ' prepared answer list'.

 Contact  8 a.m. on weekdays,  and 9 a.m. on weekends.  It's a Call Back option so you'll hear if it's the dulcet tones from the Emerald Isles! 🤗

This is the easiest and quickest way to contact eBay Customer Services, for a Call Back option.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

Lines open for ' live agents' 8 a.m. - 10 p.m. on weekdays

9 a.m. - 6 p.m. on weekends.

Automated agents will be available on chat outside of the above hours.

As said I recommend contacting CS first thing in the morning as there's more chance of Dublin answering.

@ipk-sol 

[sml192]

The correct procedure in this sort of situation is to first report the matter to Action Fraud and then specifically use the 'Report a problem' link in the return request and provide eBay with the Action Fraud reference number/report together with any supporting evidence.  You then stand a much better chance of a favourable outcome.  Did you actually do either of those things? 

[ipk-sol]

Thank you for your response.

As mentioned, we followed the correct procedure: we reported the issue to eBay, a declaration was signed, and the case was closed by refunding both parties. The problem is that the buyer left misleading negative feedback, and eBay is saying they can't do anything because there is "no proof" that we didn't send them a beat-up, stained item instead of the new one that was pictured. Because scamming people is our business model you see!

So, we are asking what we should do in these situations. If we had stayed quiet, accepted that we were scammed, and refunded the full amount, we likely wouldn't have received the negative feedback directly attacking our integrity and claiming we sell disgusting used items while showing photos of new ones.

I would really appreciate a response from eBay on the matter. 

[ipk-sol]

Hi tressygirl,

Thank you for your detailed response. We never want to argue with a person on the phone. When you hear an eBay representative just reading a script with no intention of helping, you simply have to go along with it and hope you get someone better next time.

This is why I'm making this public. I would like to hear a public response from eBay to confirm that we should have stayed quiet and accepted the scam. It is incredibly frustrating to be lectured about how we have no proof and to hear they can't do anything about this because, from their perspective, we might as well have scammed the buyer by purposefully taking photos of a new item and then sending them a beat-up, used one.

[pegr-834437]

Unfortunately there's basically nothing you can do, I'm sure concierge used one of the most annoying lines they can, sadly as we are just an agent for putting a buyer and seller together we never see the product. We are not taking sides but we have to leave the buyers feedback up as its their opinion. That simple we are not taking sides but we are leaving one sides feedback up to me shows they are taking a side, I'd understand if you were an account that had only sold 5 items and had no history but you've sold 34k, surely that and your loyalty (which ebay thanks you for each call) should actually come into the conversation. 

Also not sure fi you know but your account is showing This Shop has no inventory available in your location when I click on it, its a known bug that eBay has just ignored for months, but next time you phone up CS I'd mention that too, at least get your account added to the list.

[4_bathrooms]

---

@ipk-sol wrote:

The problem is that the buyer left misleading negative feedback, and eBay is saying they can't do anything because there is "no proof" that we didn't send them a beat-up, stained item instead of the new one that was pictured. Because scamming people is our business model you see!

---

eBay have to be very careful when removing negative feedback. A new law - the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act - came into force on 1st January. Feedback left on eBay counts as an "online review" for the purposes of the act; the act makes it illegal for eBay to "fail to publish, or remove from publication, negative consumer reviews whilst publishing positive ones (or vice versa)".

Of course, there is more to it than that. eBay can (and is obliged to) remove any feedback they know to be false. However, in your case eBay simply doesn't know whether you did send a heavily used item or a brand new one. The pictures you have of the item unsealed in it's retail packaging are no proof of anything other than you took a picture of a brand new item.

eBay updated their feedback policy late last year, likely in response to the above becoming law. Within that policy they have made it much clearer when they will remove feedback. 

[ipk-sol]

This is not a criminal court that requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We are a seller with tens of thousands of sales, selling thousands of items each month, and we have 99.9% positive feedback. We were scammed on a *bleep*py £30 item. We followed eBay's procedure. Do you think it's worth receiving negative feedback over £30?

If we had known there was no protection from scammers, we would have stayed quiet, accepted the loss, and avoided the negative feedback. With all due respect, no one is actually answering the question we have asked: can eBay please confirm that the correct procedure for sellers is to stay quiet and not report any swaps, scams, or similar behaviour to ensure we avoid negative feedback that can never be removed?

[4_bathrooms]

---

@ipk-sol wrote:

This is not a criminal court that requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

---

As per the quoted part of the legislation, it is illegal for eBay to remove a negative review (feedback) whilst publishing positive reviews unless they know 100% the review is false. If eBay were found to be in contravention of the DMCCA the maximum penalty that could be imposed is a fine equal to 10% of their global turnover - do you really think eBay are going to risk that?

---

@ipk-sol wrote:

We are a seller with tens of thousands of sales, selling thousands of items each month, and we have 99.9% positive feedback. We were scammed on a *bleep*py £30 item. We followed eBay's procedure. Do you think it's worth receiving negative feedback over £30?

---

I've received unjust negative feedback for items worth much more and much less. In every case where it is not removable I have simply replied to the feedback in a polite, professional way that allows anyone reading the feedback to deduce the truth for themselves. You still have a 99.99% feedback rating with 11 other negative feedbacks received - I don't understand why this particular one is bothering you so much?

---

@ipk-sol wrote:

If we had known there was no protection from scammers, we would have stayed quiet, accepted the loss, and avoided the negative feedback. 

---

The buyer received a full refund but still left negative feedback. Unless you have evidence of feedback extortion - i.e. the buyer threatened to leave negative feedback at some point - I don't see how it mattered to the buyer where the refund came from. The buyer would very likely have left negative feedback no matter what you did.

---

@ipk-sol wrote:

If we had known there was no protection from scammers, we would have stayed quiet, accepted the loss, and avoided the negative feedback. With all due respect, no one is actually answering the question we have asked: can eBay please confirm that the correct procedure for sellers is to stay quiet and not report any swaps, scams, or similar behaviour to ensure we avoid negative feedback that can never be removed?

---

You were protected - you were not held liable for refunding the buyer. eBay have basically decided they didn't know who was at fault so have refunded the buyer at their own expense. The correct procedure in a case like this is to upload a return label, receive the item (or whatever the buyer sends back) then use the "Report a problem" link in the case to report the buyer for returning a different item. If the value of the item is important the seller needs to contact Action Fraud before filing the report in order to provide AF's reference number as mentioned by @sml192 earlier. 

eBay protected you from being scammed; i.e. you did not suffer a financial loss. A seller cannot avoid receiving negative feedback as it is the buyer's decision as to what feedback (if any) they will leave for the seller. As mentioned in my earlier post eBay have a stated policy which details the circumstances under which they will remove feedback. That policy states eBay will remove negative/neutral feedback if a Money Back Guarantee case is closed with the seller having met their obligations to the buyer. This basically means the case was closed in the seller's favour which didn't happen in this case - eBay didn't decide either way and took the financial hit themselves. You could try arguing that point with Concierge but I suspect you'll just be wasting more of your time. 

[theforeigncoinman]

Basically yes - I was once told by a customer service agent that my business  should just account for losses through scams etc just like any other shop would for theft or shoplifting etc. 

Naturally that’s a really poor response especially considering the case in question was a blatant obvious case of postal fraud! Sadly for eBay they have already been paid their fees from the transaction so they wash their hands of it. 

[dch2112011]

Proving a buyer has taken advantage of an online seller is more than difficult - there is no face to face contact and the transaction pretty much relies on good faith.

What we do to avoid all the unnecessary  anguish, indignation etc is simply calculate the cost of all returns annually no matter the reason - the rights or wrongs  become irrelevant  because we calculate the percentage as a predicted loss and add this percentage to every single item being sold.

This way you never need to worry about 'theft' breakages' lost items'  sending replacements without return of original item  and can even on occasion refund customers without a return - we never lose money, never get into an argument with customers  and never lose money.

This works very well for large volume as the cost is pennies per item and is spread between all items ordered.

This is a time proven practice adopted by most volume sellers online and in store that allows exemplary, quick customer service at no cost to the seller - 

[pillarboxred]

Contact the Police and ask them to investigate this fraud. Write to your MP if the Police are unwilling to investigate. The Police will probably find your nice item on the premises of the buyer and your fingerprints will be on it. The wrongfulness of the fraud is not connected to the economic value. Ordinary citizens can't get redress for such crimes but new political movements are afoot which might do something.

[dch2112011]

I think you might find the police treat minor online disagreements with even less enthusiasm than shop lifting.

It is a disagreement  until proven otherwise - not at all sure any realistic criminal investigation would be undertaken where a seller claims a buyer has not returned an item.

Maybe in a civil proceeding if the seller terms and conditions have not been adhered to by the buyer.

And even then you have the member agreement with ebay giving them the right to mediate disputes to muddy the water !  

[4_bathrooms]

---

@pillarboxred wrote:

Contact the Police and ask them to investigate this fraud. 

---

As per the OP:

"As mentioned, we followed the correct procedure: we reported the issue to eBay, a declaration was signed, and the case was closed by refunding both parties."

There's nothing for the police to investigate. The only party that suffered a financial loss was eBay so it's up to them whether they want to report the matter or not.