Ebay asking for my Nat Ins Number

[lights-camera-actionuk]

I have had a e mail for E Bay asking for my national Insurance number so i can contiunue to sell on e bay

 I am a registered business and have been for over 20 years

 I am VAT registered and have been for over 15 years with my VAT number oin my  e bay account

I pay an accountant to do my accounts of my sales on ebay  every 3 month and now this 

I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT GIVING MY NAT INSURANCE NUMBER TO E BAY, and there is no mention of it being safe   wit E Bay   im furious

[storage.boutique]

It is pretty obvious from the furore about this that people have a lot to hide. They can protest about it being personal or sinister, but we all suspect that they have something to hide. It is these people that force all our costs up, and make the platform an uneven playing field. However, we should take comfort in the fact that the bill comes due. There are no shortcuts and if you have an NI number, there is a record of what you have been doing, not doing, claiming etc. It will not take very much at all to train the AI to find those NI numbers trading on eBay who have not submitted tax returns in the last 7 years and send an assessment.

[dch2112011]

Wasn't that the point @lucy_farmer  was making that ebay being a USA company  whose tax and reporting rules are different to the UK may have written the survey not specifically for the UK  but as a general survey generated for the global market or even the USA market originally ?

Isn't this basically what you have stated - just in a different way ?

Or are you thinking that @lucy_farmer  was referring to the nino reporting rather than the ebay survey which was being discussed at the time of the post ?

[storage.boutique]

That link is simply to stop eBay taking your data and using it to train their own AI. It is related to GSPR regulations and you can opt out. 

The requirement by HMRC for eBay to submit NI numbers is nothing to do with that and is a legal requirement. The other major platforms are also implementing and two of the website hosting companies I use have also started doing it. You cannot opt out of HMRC reporting requirements sadly or we would all be rich.

[storage.boutique]

If HMRC decides you are a business, you can appeal that matter first. If your appeal is not accepted and the inspectors maintain you are a business, then that collector would need to account for the costs against the income if they planned to lower the assessment they had been sent for tax purposes. Yes, there is a £1,000 profit threshold. But if the collector in question here has been buying job lots for 7 years and selling off the excess then I think the HMRC are likely to assume that is a business and send an assessment. In the case of my late father in law, he had foolishly not kept records of certain large purchases, and HMRC assessed him for £100,000 in undeclared profit. He was unable to provide (or refused to provide) documentary evidence of these purchases and so had to declare bankruptcy. Had he not been a limited company, it would have been worth HMRC to seize assets such as his house. I know it sounds like scaremongering, but it really does not take much imagination to foresee a world where the AI can connect your NI number on eBay to the tax returns / social security claims on your NI record and spot a difference.  

[shopping-ferret]

Yes, I am aware of this.  I just provided it to anyone here who is concerned and wanted to opt out.  I am not paranoid about my data being being collected by Ebay, HMRC or any body that is licenced.

[dch2112011]

According to HMRC - not me I am just repeating what HMRC have declared :

If a private individual declares that they are not trading ie selling personal items and HMRC declare differently that they are trading they will be assesed as a private individual and will not be allowed to claim business expenses  because they have stated they are not a business  - the inference is that they will be taxed for profit on their turnover, they will not be allowed to deduct expenses such as item cost, postage, packaging office costs etc.

With collectors  HMRC recognise that they are not a business but may sell  or swop items from their collections or  sell duplicates obtained in job lots - these swops or sales may be classed as taxable income in the same way as if they were a private individual, HMRC therefore accept they are not a business, trader or dealer but may be liable for tax on their activities 

Of course you can put forward a 100 scenarios which may be viewed differently by HMRC  and we can all guess how in reality HMRC  would handle each individual situation 

I was merely responding to what type of situation would be possible to one of the survey questions which a couple of members denied was possible and were mocking ebay for asking the question 

The question related to buying to resell but not being a business owner 

[sml192]

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@storage.boutique wrote:

It is nothing to do with the USA.

HMRC has asked eBay to provide certain types of information against certain types of UK businesses. If you are a private seller or self employed, you will be required to provide your NI number. If you are a Limited company and owner you will be asked to provide your company HMRC number (UTR) and if you are a person with significant control your NI number. If you are only an employee of a Limited company and not a person with significant control of the company or a Director, I dont think you will be required to supply your NI number but the person that does own the company will be required to submit their NI number. 

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Companies are required to provide their Company Registration Number (CRN) not NI numbers.  Partnerships are required to provide their UTR.  Only individuals (Sole Traders and Private Sellers) are required to provide their NI number. 

[sml192]

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@storage.boutique wrote:

If HMRC decides you are a business, you can appeal that matter first. If your appeal is not accepted and the inspectors maintain you are a business, then that collector would need to account for the costs against the income if they planned to lower the assessment they had been sent for tax purposes. Yes, there is a £1,000 profit threshold. 

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The £1,000 trading allowance relates to turnover not profit. 

[storage.boutique]

Sorry to be a killjoy but I dont think you are corect. Your self emplyment under the CIS scheme is classed separately because you are registered for a highly specific construction scheme basis of taxation. You cannot use a CIS scheme UTR to somehow evade giving your NI Number. A TIN number is an American thing by the way, although eBay and other platforms are trying to use it globally - in the UK, a TIN number is your NI Number and not your UTR. I have never heard of the NIN designation - here we usually say NI Number, or in the olden days we called it NHI Number.

If you are selling on eBay and make more than £1,000 then you will be required to submit a separate tax assessment form to your CIS returns.

[storage.boutique]

Lots of questions there. You have provided your NI number which will match your tax record held by HMRC so no problem.

The reason why there are so many private sellers still trading is because HMRC has not enforced anything on them yet. As far as I know, no action has been taken. If I had to guess, and it is only a guess, there will come a day when HMRC will pounce and send out assessments to all the guys whose records dont add up. Or they may take severe action against a few as an example. It is not for eBay to take action. They cannot make judgements in all cases. For example a foreign individual in China declaring to eBay that they are a private seller - I am not sure how eBay could verify this or not, except by making a judgement. Whereas HMRC could be examining their tax returns in this country and pounce in due course if things do not appear above board. 

[storage.boutique]

You can try that but I think it would open up a can of worms for you. You would be better to sort out the account details to match your tax position. If it is in her name, then she should submit a tax assessment. If it is you conducting the business, you should correct the name / NI number on the eBay account. If you say that everything is decared under the household business, then HMRC may decide it is a partnership if that looks like it may be worth their while. Coming up with some convoluted reason why a business appears in one persons name, but is declared on anothers tax return is not a good look and is likely to raise suspicions as to why (even if entirely innocent). Best you correct, I say.

[sml192]

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@honeymonster007 wrote:

Been wondering if eBay hold peoples NI number permanently on their data base or if there's an option to remove it.

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A Reporting Platform Operator is required by 'The Platform Operators (Due Diligence and Reporting Requirements) Regulations 2023 to retain the information collected for a period of 5 years following the relevant reportable period. 

' (4) A reporting platform operator must keep the records required by paragraph (3) for a period of five years beginning with the day after the end of the reportable period to which they relate.' 

[sml192]

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@storage.boutique wrote:

A TIN number is an American thing by the way, although eBay and other platforms are trying to use it globally - in the UK, a TIN number is your NI Number and not your UTR. I have never heard of the NIN designation - here we usually say NI Number, or in the olden days we called it NHI Number.

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In the UK, NINO (National Insurance Number), UTR (Unique Taxpayer Reference) and CRN (Company Registration Number) are all used as Tax Identification Numbers (TIN) by HMRC:

IEIM902330 - Tax Identification Number (TIN)

A TIN is a unique number (or combination of letters and numbers) in a specified format issued by a jurisdiction for the purposes of identifying individuals and entities for tax purposes. A TIN can also include a number with an equivalent level of identification (a functional equivalent) such as a social security number, a citizen/personal identification number or code, or a business registration number.

The TIN is often the most useful data item for correctly linking or matching a Seller’s reported information with their details held by a tax authority. The TIN must therefore be issued by the jurisdiction in which the Seller’s primary address is found, and Reporting Platform Operators (RPOs) must collect it from each Seller, unless the country of residence of the Seller does not issue a TIN or does not require a TIN to be collected.

TIN for Individual Sellers

For an individual Seller resident in the UK, the TIN will normally be the Sellers National Insurance Number (NINO). The majority of UK resident Sellers will already have a NINO. If a Seller does not have a NINO, but they are working in the UK via a Platform, they will need to obtain a NINO from HMRC. 

TIN for Entity Sellers such as companies, partnerships, charities and trusts

For a company resident in the UK, the TIN will normally be the Company Registration Number (CRN). As NINOs in the UK are only issued to individuals, a NINO would not be an acceptable TIN for an Entity Seller.

For a general UK partnership, the TIN will be the partnership Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR).

For limited liability partnerships (LLPs), the TIN will be the CRN.

For charities, the TIN will be the CRN. However, if a charity does not have a CRN, the RPO should collect a charity reference number instead.

For trusts, the TIN will be the trust UTR.

[lucy_farmer]

Thank you dch!

I thought I'd gone a bit mad for a bit.

I was replying to a post from papso about EBAY.

nothing to do with HMRC.....

[the_book_seekers]

Does what you've quoted from explain if after 5 years the data is to be deleted or can the reporting platform operator retain it for a longer period?