Brexit

[node_8442]

We, the people, of the UK, have decided to leave the EU on March 29th 2019.

Our politicians have decided - rightly or wrongly - that we will leave without a "deal"

So where does that leave us?

[elmo7676]

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@node_8442 wrote:

We, the people, of the UK, have decided to leave the EU on March 29th 2019.

Our politicians have decided - rightly or wrongly - that we will leave without a "deal"

So where does that leave us?

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They haven't yet decided anything of the sort, although I live in hope.

[theelench]

After two and a half years of carefully manipulated panic, incompetence, obstruction, legal wrangles, lies, fake negotiations, chaos, more lies, more dollops of fear, parliamentary chicanery by two chambers stuffed with non-representative, self-serving, anti-democracy stooges (most of whom have no intention of carrying out the "Will of the people"), where does that leave us?

Exactly where they intended from the start.  The same old parties run by the same old faces doing exactly the same as usual  --  what they want regardless of what the people voted for.

[whakakoakoa]

The reality is that "no deal" is a guaranteed outcome unless there is a "deal".

There is no inbetween.

All the rest is propaganda or individual preference per politician, which is utterly meaningless.

The House of Commons has over 600 voters and the Chamber above - which was put in place to ensure the vested interests of rich land owners - has over 1000 and thus we have the second biggest Government in the World, behind China.

This mob see the EU as money now, money tomorrow, their next job, their pension etc.

But they want the same also out of the UK.

They are a bit like an online platform who wants to enrich itself at both the front of the transaction and at the end of the transaction when users have voted that once is enough and won't pay a fat fee to show their listing as well as a fat final fee.

[candytan67]

No they have not yet - Troll alert!

[theelench]

You might think so, it would seem the logical outcome but now MPs / party machines have got control the Referendum result is being kicked further and further into the long grass.  

It's being bogged down with endless arguments about parliamentary procedure, amendments and other smoke and mirrors to obscure that nothing is actually happening.  Even the "impartial" speaker is bending the rules to make things easier for them.

There is talk of delays for inter-party negotiations and then perhaps an extension of the leave date to enable yet more negotiations with the EU.  Why when they haven't had any meaningful negotiations so far?  Meanwhile Bravetart is calling for Article 50 to be withdrawn.  After a "decent interval" Westminster will probably remember Democracy again and decide that as they can't (and never intended to) agree, what we really need is another referendum or a general election (whichever looks like delivering the answer they want).

[drowen_art]

Why are people so bothered about it?

Honestly, it's just a circus act for everybody to see thats going around in circles.

General election

Tories in power

Referandum

People vote to leave

Tories shows some degree of working towards what the people voted for.

Labour does it's dam hardest to scupper what the people voted for. 

Nothing really gets done

General election,

Labour in power,

Referendum

People vote to stay

Labour shows some degree of working towards what the people voted for.

Tories do their dam hardest to scupper what the people voted for. 

Nothing really gets done

Isn't this just like it normally is with the government?

Nothing but hot air, wheeler dealer, nod nod wink wink, I pat your back if you pat mine.......etc etc........

Brexit has dominated the news for months now but behind the scenes theres a lot more (non brexit related stuff) happening that is getting done without the public at large being told or being informed about it.

The news keeps saying £39billion divorce bill but I haven't seen anything lately about the £55+ billion that HS2 is going to cost. For one I cannot see what the possibility of shaving 20 minutes off the current journey time is going to make to the country. I would personally scrape the HS2 and use the money on the hospitals, education etc where it would do more good.

One thing to remember is that the UK buys a lot of stuff from the EU countries (we do have a trade deficit (we buy more in than we export)). The individual EU countries we deal and buy from are not going to want to lose that custom in the long run so deal or not they are going to want their own individual trade deals in place either before or shortly after March 29th.

Nobody is going to want a trade war because the UK will just turn around and find markets elsewhere..... (and is probably already doing so in advance).

I know people will disagree with me but thats what debate is all about and everyone has the right to their own opinions and thats the way it should stay.

[elmo7676]

At this time we can do nothing, so I don't feel there's any need to worry about what is out of our control. 

Politicians can talk all they please, but most of it is meaningless. On 29th March we might leave the EU, then again we might not. Let's wait until that outcome materialises. 

[tony4cats]

Why on earth any Government could think that a process of a smooth Brexit was in any way possible is beyond me.

Especially as the Referendum vote was 52% for and 48% against, and to think that both those factions should be "involved" in this process also.

The only way to a smooth Brexit was to let the winning side conduct all the negotiations necessary alone.

Maybe not ideal, but at least the "Remainers" would not be able to stick their "Oar" in and scupper the negotiations at every turn, which is what was always on the cards anyway, and is what they have done.

2 opposing sides will never come to an agreement, especially in a vote as important as Brexit. They always have their own agenda to get what they always wanted in the first place. Hence all the remoaners wanting another Referendum, because they lost the first time around.

Once one side had lost they should have been dismissed from any negotiations.

[rightgrand]

I blame the people, it was all our fault for voting Leave, an outcome that was never anticipated.

The whole point of the referendum was that people would vote to remain, so Cameron could have thrown it at the misbehaving ranks of the tory party and told them to shut up.

They were attempting to use the people as a tool to serve their needs, and it backfired massively.

We need to get out, clean break.  The sky will not fall in.  Once we're out we can, as an outsider, negotiate a deal that suits us and the EU.  The EU were never going to offer a fair deal while we're a member, not while they have a need to ensure we're worse off so that others that are thinking of leaving are put off from doing the same.

The EU is basically bankrupt and on borrowed time anyway, we shouldn't worry too much about it.  We could play a part in forming a new Common Market later, this time with enshrined laws that forever limit its power instead of the "Ever Closer Union" statement that the EU has in its constitution.

[jackieclems]

It servs them right for asking us and assuming the answer.  Just goes to show how much politicians manipulate us 

[rightgrand]

Cameron had form for manipulative referendums.  When the coalition with the Lib Dems was formed, the lib dems wanted to change the electoral system to Proportional Representation.  The tories agreed to a referendum giving a choice of not PR but some horrendously complicated system or staying as we were.  As hoped, people voted to stay as we were, enabling Cameron to tell the lib dems to shut up about it.

A few years later, he attempted the same thing to shut up the anti-EU wing of the tory party.  He was betting that, as previously, the masses would vote for the comfortable "stay as we are" option rather than the "take a risk on change" one.

It all proves how a gamble is always a gamble, even if it's apparently a safe one.

[theelench]

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@jackieclems wrote:

It servs them right for asking us and assuming the answer.  Just goes to show how much politicians manipulate us 

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And how out of touch with the rest of the population they are.

[candytan67]

No.................it's Donald Trump who is to blame.................I think he's been pocessed by Margaret Thatcher!   

[al**bear]

Brand new account, just to post this thread  ?

Wonder if it's Oswald Farage

STOP BREXIT NOW

BY ANY MEANS

[theelench]

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@elmo7676 wrote:

At this time we can do nothing, so I don't feel there's any need to worry about what is out of our control. 

Politicians can talk all they please, but most of it is meaningless. On 29th March we might leave the EU, then again we might not. Let's wait until that outcome materialises. 

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You're right most of it is meaningless, it's just a smoke-screen.  The PM has now thrown open the discussion to all parties and "groups of MPs to get the widest opinions of how to move forward".

Already the discussion about how far forward the leave date can be delayed has started.  The previously proposed three months delay changed into a delay until 2020 (by the French and German governments).

The Remainers can keep the chattering going for years, the delay extended endlessly.

[rightgrand]

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@al**bear wrote:

Brand new account, just to post this thread  ?

Wonder if it's Oswald Farage

STOP BREXIT NOW

BY ANY MEANS

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I won't reduce myself to using bold, capitals or red fonts!

"Stop democracy, I don't agree with the outcome".

You should get yourself down to London, grab a megaphone and annoy the reporters along with the other remoaners.

[jlg1152]

Valid on both sides of the English Channel.

- expect increased postage tariffs between UK and EU because of UK jump to "third country" category.

- expect increased paperwork (customs documents, invoices) for sending items between EU and UK.

- expect VAT and customs duties to be added from certain amounts on. 

- expect longer delivery times  (with delays in customs).

- expect UK standards items no longer being accepted in EU.

Some of these regardless of any (no-) deal. Combined with the Global Shipping folly which costs your foreign customers on average 40% more for shipping the future is not bright for foreign sales.

[candytan67]

How do you know and can be sure about all this??????

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@candytan67 wrote:

How do you know and can be sure about all this??????

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That’s an easy one - we know because that is the current situation with non-EU countries.