AI unable to make correct decisions when reporting listing violations to Ebay!!

[shopping-ferret]

I was scrolling through Ebay looking for Sharpie pens.  I came across several listings which were using the brand name to sell their non-branded, similar looking items.  Ebay is inundated with these kind of misleading title descriptions so I did the right thing to 'keep Ebay a safe place' and took the time to report 3 of the many listings (I was testing Ebay's responses).  They were all violating Ebay's policy on keyword spamming/misuse of brand names.  Not in the least surprised, I get the replies I expected, that Ebay did not agree they violated their own policies!!!  (I tried to copy and paste the response, but would not let me as claimed errors were contained!!!   Yeah - TOO RIGHT!!!

I understand AI being used, but it is simply not intelligent or sophisticated enough in this situation and unfit for purpose.  There is no option provided to appeal the decision.  So how do we keep Ebay a safe place for all?

[elianajvintage]

I had exactly the same experience with FB and I appealed the decision when they said it didn’t contravene their policies. They took longer to get back to me the second time but still with the same result. I don’t know how they could have thought  it was acceptable but it appears that anything goes nowadays 🤷🏼‍♀️

[hillbillycarrotcruncher]

I reported listing violation today as well as Seller was trying to charge for the use of click and collect which is a policy violation. I reported it and guess what the AI said there was no violation. I’ve stopped using Ebay pretty much because it’s not a safe place to shop and it’s annoying when you try to stick within the rules and report something to them it’s almost like they don’t want things to be reported. I use Amazon mostly now it’s safe. I can trust it. I get my stuff on time and I don’t get any hassle.

[bazinga-games]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of them around  😐  They're likely what some call NPCs.

[darth_baggins]

@hillbillycarrotcruncher 

Was it a private seller? If so, eBay recently added click and collect to 'Simple' Delivery and there's a charge (15% lower than the regular postage fee).

[notimpressedatall]

There is a repeated pattern here - possible just to make more money.

First, they say certain items are not allowed, then they do allow them and turn a blind eye - making money.

When you report them, mostly they say no problem there - regardless if the decision was made by AI or agent - still making money.

When you appeal - like it is your job to make sure eBay does as they should - they mostly still say no issue there - carrying on making money.

The only new thing I have noticed lately is they say if you do not like it you have 6 months to do something about it, like taking them to court. Sure.

Now, if you consider the number of staff, equipment, AI, so-called experts along with the experience and supposed knowledge, there should be no way a disallowed item should be out there after all that hassle.

What is obvious here is every time they remove an item, they leave some still available for purchase as they 'are busy' and 'cannot do it all'. I could. Guess what? And they carry on making money as usual, just like nothing happened as the customers just migrate to another seller who quite often ups the price due to less competition, giving eBay even more in fees. Happy days.

I am well in it as in my case they made it personal. 

[notimpressedatall]

Just reported one listing for medicine with 'expired' in the title and item description. Response:

We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.  This determination was made by a customer service agent.

Normally you get a sack for that, here you get away with anything. I am really tempted to buy it, consume it and then come back to ebay asking why this was allowed to sell knowing it had been reported. How do you get away with that?

[cobwebcottage]

' I am really tempted to buy it, consume it and then come back to ebay asking why this was allowed to sell knowing it had been reported.'

Buy it, I don't recommend taking it but if you did and had a dodgy tummy ( or worse) sue them ( the seller).

Shame we are not in the US as the payment could be substantial for a lawsuit against the seller.

Bad isn't it?

[notimpressedatall]

This is simply criminal. My beef here is with ebay as a platform benefitting financially from that whilst playing dumb. If a seller is happy to take the risk, that's a different story. What I cannot get at all is the role of the regulators, simply allowing ebay to do whatever they feel like.

[cobwebcottage]

Another example is private sellers making cakes in their homes. ( have a search for your favourite one. It is rife with 'private sellers' cashing in).

No way to know if they have a food hygiene rating or if they registered with their local authority.

It is so easy for Ebay to find them and removed them.

Half of them have probably no idea about Natasha's Law although they could face a criminal charge if they fall foul of it. 

And I can't believe that consumers would risk buying from them. Let's hope we don't see it on the news one day when someone has lost their life.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Must admit, I hadn't heard of that one, but not something that I would generally know about anyway tbh.

I can't imagine buying a food product online from a private seller.  
It's just begging for trouble.  
At least with a business, you have a certain amount of protection.

[cobwebcottage]

It's the one EVERY food seller should be aware of. 

And Ebay. I mean, how difficult would it be to make the bread and bakery section for business sellers only?

It wouldn't stop the workarounds but at least they would be doing some due diligence!

[ett1954]

"And Ebay. I mean, how difficult would it be to make the bread and bakery section for business sellers only?" - eBay's help section states (my bold): "Before selling food items, you must register your business with the UK local authority."  Therefore by implication you have to be a business seller to sell food on eBay.

It would be so easy to ensure all food categories were for registered business sellers only.  Should the worst happen to a consumer, and as now eBay are now involved with the transaction through the Buyer Protection Fee for private sellers, then eBay could be found to be jointly liable.  eBay could be construed as no longer 'just a selling platform'.  Only a few days ago a private seller was on these boards complaining about Simple Delivery whilst selling chilled poultry.

[bojangled]

@cobwebcottage @ett1954 

This was brought up with the community team before Christmas. The team actually quoted that regulation as a response. 
And still buyers can purchase from sellers without any food hygiene certification or checks.

kat@ebay marco@ebay dave@ebay Why is this still allowed? 

Jo

[4_bathrooms]

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@notimpressedatall wrote:

What I cannot get at all is the role of the regulators, simply allowing ebay to do whatever they feel like.

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eBay gave regulators like the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS) the power to take down dangerous listings without consultation:

"Online seller eBay says it is handing regulators the power to take down dangerous listings without consulting the company." 

I suspect what the above really meant was that eBay handed all responsibility for removing dangerous listings to those regulators. Therefore, it is pointless reporting dangerous listings to eBay because they left the policing of them to someone else.

The OPSS directs consumers to report product safety issues to Citizens Advice (England & Wales), Advice Direct (Scotland) or your local district council (Northern Ireland). However, I suspect these organisations will only be remotely interested in passing on information to Trading Standards if you purchased something as a consumer that caused injury or illness. There is a general reporting service for Trading Standards on Citizens Advice's website but it is only available from 5pm Friday to 9am on Monday. That said, these are probably still better options for reporting dangerous listings than trying to report them via eBay.     

[4_bathrooms]

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@cobwebcottage wrote:

Another example is private sellers making cakes in their homes. ( have a search for your favourite one. It is rife with 'private sellers' cashing in).

No way to know if they have a food hygiene rating or if they registered with their local authority.

It is so easy for Ebay to find them and removed them.

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I really don't understand why the FSA hasn't mandated the display of food hygiene ratings of sellers where food is sold online. It would be very simple to do; the rating could even be made clickable so the registration could be checked on ratings.food.gov.uk. Online marketplaces would be held responsible for ensuring anything sold as food displayed the seller's food hygiene rating; thus ensuring the seller is correctly registered with their local authority as a food business.

I also don't understand why anyone would buy food or drink from a complete stranger on the internet.

[ett1954]

"That said, these are probably still better options for reporting dangerous listings than trying to report them via eBay. " - My recommendation to anyone impacted or concerned by food bought online would be to report the matter to their local Environmental Health Office.  From experience they will follow through any 'genuine concerns' or health issues that can be possibly attributed to such a purchase.  They can also quickly, through their network, check whether this throws up any potential public health issues and take the appropriate action quickly.

If anyone is concerned that a competitor is undercutting you and registered as a private seller try querying the registration status of the seller through their local Environmental Health Office if you can identify their location.   Note: if they are not registered you make be asked to help with any enquiries. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Yes, but the only way to find out where a private seller is located (other than generally), is to make a purchase from them.

So unless you are really quite committed to tackling these sellers, most aren't going to bother.

However, I have just had a look and reported five very obvious private sellers, selling food to the public.

Two have already been taken down and waiting for the rest still.
So for this kind of thing, it's worth reporting to Ebay, as they are at least taking some action.

The other side of reporting them, is just because they have a private account, does not mean that they don't have the certifications in place.  Frankly, they would be stupid not to.  So that then leaves those sellers that want to make a couple of quid and it's really just a hobby.  They are the ones that haven't even thought to check about food safety etc.  But more than likely, the smallest issue.

[cobwebcottage]

'Two have already been taken down and waiting for the rest still.'.

That's great although there are 100's - 1000's of listings. When we finish reporting cakes, then what? Homemade samosa's?

In the age of modern technology ( and laws) , surely it shouldn't be us spending the time reporting all of these listings trying to make Ebay a safer place. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Oh, I'm well aware.

I just figured it was worth a try to see if it was any easier than business registered as private.  And it is!

But it's one of those isn't it, if everyone reports then it will actually improve things.  Even though Ebay should be sorting out themselves, which they clearly aren't.
The other side of it though, is if they actually see the scope of the problem, they may well actually act.

I would however be curious to find out how much liability there is on Ebay for allowing these kind of listings to go ahead.  

[4_bathrooms]

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@cobwebcottage wrote:

In the age of modern technology ( and laws) , surely it shouldn't be us spending the time reporting all of these listings trying to make Ebay a safer place. 

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Precisely. All food businesses registered with a local authority are assigned a unique registration number by the FSA. An online marketplace should be obliged to obtain this number if a food item is listed and to display the food business's hygiene rating on the listing which should be clickable to the business's FSA registration page.

Something very similar actually existed for over-the-counter medicines due to EU regulations. Sellers of OTC medicines were required to display the MHRA logo which - when clicked - opened the seller's registration page on the MHRA website. This now only applies to sellers of such medicines who are registered in Northern Ireland; where Great Britain is concerned a replacement is being "worked on".