AI unable to make correct decisions when reporting listing violations to Ebay!!

[shopping-ferret]

I was scrolling through Ebay looking for Sharpie pens.  I came across several listings which were using the brand name to sell their non-branded, similar looking items.  Ebay is inundated with these kind of misleading title descriptions so I did the right thing to 'keep Ebay a safe place' and took the time to report 3 of the many listings (I was testing Ebay's responses).  They were all violating Ebay's policy on keyword spamming/misuse of brand names.  Not in the least surprised, I get the replies I expected, that Ebay did not agree they violated their own policies!!!  (I tried to copy and paste the response, but would not let me as claimed errors were contained!!!   Yeah - TOO RIGHT!!!

I understand AI being used, but it is simply not intelligent or sophisticated enough in this situation and unfit for purpose.  There is no option provided to appeal the decision.  So how do we keep Ebay a safe place for all?

[myretrostore-uk]

They reporting is useless. I've stopped reporting items as everything I report they find nothing wrong with.

Report says it was looked at by a customer service agent but I don't believe that for a second, otherwise they can't seem to be able to read as items are clearly violating their policies.

[tr3asurep0rium]

I reported a few in the last month for all kinds of violations, including one item I bought for item location policy violation as the item had clearly been dropshipped by Amazon, and was not in stock. Of course some bot thought there was nothing wrong. 

I did report a private seller for acting as a business, and although the report said they would do nothing, that seller now has a business account. So something happened. 

[shopping-ferret]

Possibly down to your report, but might just be a coincidence but either way must feel like a small victory for you.   

There is a private seller who consistently has around 600 listings and rising (incidentally similar number to me) and there is no doubt they are trading as a business, yet nothing has changed since all the new regulations came out.  Maybe it is taking time to implement.  I even reported this same seller about 2-3 years ago to Ebay (who did nothing) and also to HMRC (I had reason to, not just because they were clearly not a genuine private seller), yet they are still on ebay and still not registered as a business.  Nothing has changed.  For all I know, may even have multiple seller accounts.

I guess it is going to take time for the requirements to filter down to everyone.   It is certainly a big undertaking for the platforms and authorities and not sure how they are going to even put this into practice.  People can easily lie, however if accounts are scrutinised and someone has 100 of the same item as this seller does... quite sure they can't lie their way out of it.

Private sellers detest business sellers complaining.  The difference is simple.  One of us is honest and paying the price and liable for taxes and the other is dishonest, has the potential for bigger profit margins with an unfair advantage over small businesses and are avoiding paying taxes.  Oh yes and then there is the buyer and how they are affected (although Ebay have found a way round that by charging the buyers, buyer protection!)  They will do anything to keep hold of their private sellers to prevent them leaving in droves to go to other platforms, however in time private sellers will find they have nowhere to run where they can carry on cheating.

[shopping-ferret]

Just had this and cannot even blame it on AI this time!!  Seems the human agents are as flawed:

Hello xxxxxx,

Thanks again for reporting the listing(s) you found.              [EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE WASTED YOUR TIME]

What happened:                                [WHEN WE SPENT ALL OF FIVE SECONDS TO SAY COMPUTER SAYS NO]
We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.  This determination was made by a customer service agent.                                                                    [YOU ARE SO LUCKY IT WAS NOT AI]

If you reported content that isn’t listed below, we’ll send a separate email once we’ve made a decision.                                                                                                                     [YOU CAN BE SURE THIS IS THE END OF THE MATTER]

Your reference ID:
xxxxxxxx 

Here are the listings you reported that are included in this decision:
Item: xxxxxxxx Permanent Marker Pens .............. Like Sharpie ................              [IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO STATE    SOMETHING IS 'LIKE' AND DOES NOT VIOLATE OUR POLICIES ON MISUSING BRAND NAMES DESPITE BRAND NAMES BEING MISUSED]

Thank you for being part of the eBay community.                     [BUT WE NEVER TAKE A BLIND BIT OF NOTICE WHEN YOU TRY TO KEEP EBAY A SAFE PLACE FOR ALL!!   HOWEVER, CHEERS FOR ALL THE SELLER FEES OVER THE YEARS]

Thanks,

eBay
🙄
Please don't reply to this message. It was sent from an address that doesn't accept incoming email.                                                                                [TOUGH, BUT THIS IS THE DECISION, LIKE IT OR NOT, RIGHT OR WRONG.]

[spence0175]

You need to report again. 

[shopping-ferret]

First of all, why should I need to report again?  Is this a feature of reporting things to Ebay, that the first time you get a NO?

So I did report it again 

Hello xxxxxxxx,

Thanks again for reporting the listing(s) you found. 

What happened:
We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence.

If you reported content that isn’t listed below, we’ll send a separate email once we’ve made a decision. 

Your reference ID:
xxxxxxxx

Here are the listings you reported that are included in this decision:
Item: xxxxxxxxxx ................................ Like Sharpie Waterproof

Thank you for being part of the eBay community.

Thanks,

eBay

Please don't reply to this message. It was sent from an address that doesn't accept incoming email.

[darth_baggins]

I've given up. Over the years I've reported counterfeit video games, fake stamps, MVL abuse, trademark infringement, sellers adding fees on after the sale, sellers with flags, text and other graphics in their images...etc etc.

I'd say less than 1% of any listings or sellers I've reported has seen any action taken. Of course if you mention it on the weekly chat, you get told nonsense like eBay acts on all reports and takes it all very seriously, which is just blantantly wrong.

Part of the problem is outsourcing to countries where the operatives don't speak very good English, nor are they familar with eBay rules.

But then I got a book removed years ago that had Omega in the title and eBay accused me of selling a fake watch. You can't make this stuff up.

Reporting is pointless and a waste of time.

[spence0175]

Please don’t take it out on me.

For the few times I have ever reported something it took me to the 3rd attempt and I then  pointed out it was against their policies for why I was reporting which was Ivory…

As Darth has said for the most, reporting is a waste of time, well of your time….

[4_bathrooms]

---

@shopping-ferret wrote:

I was scrolling through Ebay looking for Sharpie pens.  I came across several listings which were using the brand name to sell their non-branded, similar looking items...

...They were all violating Ebay's policy on keyword spamming/misuse of brand names. 

---

As they're engaging in trade mark infringement your time would probably be better spent reporting the listings to the trade mark owner along with a link to eBay's VeRO Programme.

If the trade mark owner isn't interested in protecting their own intellectual property it's pointless you trying to do it for them. A few years ago I stopped stocking products from a certain brand for exactly that reason; i.e. they point blank refused to police their own IP despite poor quality knock-offs dominating Google Shopping. By the time they were interested in policing their IP it was too late - the brand had already become associated with poor-quality merchandise. In the end no retailers were interested in stocking their products due to the undeserved reputation their brand had earned.    

[shopping-ferret]

Thanks for that advice.  I guess my motive is it annoys me and more so when it is an item I am selling and I sell authentic items, whereas cheap knock offs or sellers playing on the stupidity or ignorance of buyers, who think they are getting a bargain or an item of equal quality.  What I charge for one authentic Sharpie, they are charging for a pack of Sharpie look-a-likes.  It is not as if the pens in question have the Sharpie logo printed on them, but they look just like the Sharpie pens - some are without any print on the barrels, whilst others have a different brand name imprinted.

At one time, if you inserted the word 'like' followed by a brand name, Ebay would flag this and it would be disallowed.  Ebay policy now states amongst other things:

• All content in a listing must be directly related to the item or the seller's terms and conditions
• Item descriptions must be accurate

Hence, Ebay do not recognise their own policy violations!

If you complain to VeRO, you have to the be rights owner and not just an observer, I think?  I would certainly not report it to Stanford Sharpie as they would take no action, I am sure.  I would not even get a reply!

[shopping-ferret]

My comment was just like I was thinking out aloud and not directed personally to you, so sorry about the way it came across.  But we should not have to report something 2, 3 or more times before we happen to get an agent who is not lazy and has some sense.   It is like playing Russian Roulette as to the outcome.   If AI has already deemed no policy violation, then the next time you re-report, AI will make the same decision and will not deviate.   Not sure how long ago you reported a listing but I think over the past year the system has deteriorated, probably firstly due to Ebay trying to save costs on employing humans (who much of the time, many were pretty useless anyway), and secondly due to the sheer number of reports they must be inundated with. 

Last year I reported a number of listings of different sellers, which I suspected were all connected.  Each of their listings had a photo up with contact details.  Clearly the agents were not doing a proper job of checking the listings.  In the end I managed to get a contact email address of someone who had helped me with an issue previously and through him, all the listings I reported were taken down.  

Unbelievable.  Yet I have had a long established listing which sold hundreds of items, taken down for no good reason and when I challenged Ebay, after giving me totally made up , non-sensical and invalid reasons' - they admitted it was a system error.  Seems their system is full of errors.  And their agents not far behind.

[parsley2003]

I agree i tested AI doing my description for me and it said something like "wonderful item in perfect condition" when it was a postcard with faults which i always try to detail. I would never use AI because it leaves us open to "not as described"

[spence0175]

Thankyou. It is frustrating. I reported Ivory. I ticked the box marked products not allowed, and twice got a message saying there was nothing wrong. The 3 rd time I pointed out it was against their policy and it was finally removed.

but it should not be down to us to police. 

[shopping-ferret]

Absolutely and so when we take the care and time to do so, Ebay should reward us by taking the report seriously and appreciating our help as they are clearly incapable and do not have the technology or manpower to police the site.  Even when I have given full details and tell Ebay to check all the other listings of that seller, as I do not have the time to report each individually, still the listings all remain and I get sent a 'computer says no' stock reply.

Very occasionally they have responded first time but it is definitely getting worse.

[shopping-ferret]

Yes at first it was a novelty but the same old adjectives like 'elevate' are used!  But you cannot trust the description AI creates.  If you use it, you have to carefully check through for inaccuracy.  I did try it out, but spent so much time making amendments and additions that in the end I stopped.

[shopping-ferret]

I hear you.

It is no wonder the fake private sellers just carry on regardless.  Ebay is not taking any proactive or definitive action - just here and there from what I can gather.  If they can't seem to take action against the small things, they won't care too much about the bigger things. 

The technology is basic - you complain about a tech problem and they tell you they will pass it to the tech team and you will hear back and you never do and the problem carries on for an age - even months and years.   The same problems are ongoing until a LOT of complaints are made or they have someone bright enough to solve the issue and maybe upgrade their system to cope with all the traffic.

You phone up, describe a problem and get a sympathetic agent making a promise of what they will do and not only is it not done but when you complain again, despite the fact the calls have all been recorded, and they said they would make a note of the conversation, Ebay do not care about upholding their promises. 

Once you accept the pros and cons of being an Ebay seller, Ebay is OK so long as you don't have too many horrible scummy buyers to deal with and so long as you rarely have reason to contact Ebay customer service and if you do, you get a good agent who is knowledgeable and has some clout, hears you and solves your problem and on the rare occasion that happens it restores your faith in the platform. 

Don't get me wrong - I love selling on Ebay and it has been in my life for nearly 20 years and provided me with a living, but there is a lot wrong that need not be, and Ebay do not listen to us when we either try to help make Ebay better for ourselves, or for everyone else too.