Tories support for the "Hard working families"

[joe_bloggs*]

Government sees off rebellion to win vote on working tax credit cuts

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/15/government-wins-vote-to-cut-working-tax-credits

The cuts to tax credits, which will see the earnings level above which they are withdrawn cut from £6,420 to £3,850 from next April, were approved by 325 votes to 290. David Davis, the former shadow home secretary, and Stephen McPartland, were the only Tory MPs to vote against the government alongside Labour, the SNP and the Democratic Unionists.

And the one UKIP MP voted with the government ! !!% pay rise for MP's anyone?

[lambsy_uk]

Pay rise for Tory MPS only as they are doing a great job of clearing the mess up!

[al**bear]

This is their second attack on working People on Tax credits,

they already took £1200 off them last Parliament

[al**bear]

You can watch Mr Cameron in pre-election speech

Promise the Tories will NOT cut Working Tax credits -- He even repeats the promise

[joamur_gosof]

Another liar to get voted wins another general election in UK ...how pathetically apathetic we must be as a nations children ,Must be so easy for the ruling class they hate us ,They must say round the dinner table...'' oh how I long for a hard job where people test my metal these **bleep** make me sick,we try everything to goad them yet nothing ...we should replace them with decent folk that stand up for right''.

Still Cameron may not be responsible in this shady set up of fiddling MP'S ,he may well have meant it ,but if 500 MPs want a vote he can't do much except try to persuade others to vote as he is ,so he can keep promise..

..Very wrong this set up,we have no leader as such ,just a committee (like facsism) who decide by voting (like democracy) to ride rough shot over everyone else (like imperialism )

whilst pretending its for all your own good (like communism) and people die usually and no one cares (like despots)

[Anonymous]

Well, they have to find the money somewhere to pay for the refugees, so why not put that burden on the little people as well.

Curtains won't be closed because people are still in bed being lazy, they will be closed because they starved to death.

[******lynda******]

Odd how no one mentions they raised tax threshold. Though not enough. Should be about £15000 IMO.

I think it is mad to take tax off earnings then hand it back in benefits. The cost of admin must be enormous. Makes more sense to me to let people keep more of their wages in the first place. 

[******lynda******]

And maybe if people get to keep more of their wages before tax and we are seen to be handing out less money to everyone, people who think this is the land of milk and honey may revise their opinion? Just a thought.

[jd.linklater]

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@******lynda****** wrote:

Odd how no one mentions they raised tax threshold. Though not enough. Should be about £15000 IMO.

I think it is mad to take tax off earnings then hand it back in benefits. The cost of admin must be enormous. Makes more sense to me to let people keep more of their wages in the first place. 

---

That makes perfect sense Lynda but that's rarely how Government works, if something can be overcomplicated then that's the way it will be done.  They never seem to grasp what is so obvious it stares the rest of us in the face.

[******lynda******]

I was hoping this lot might head that way. They certainly bumped up the tax threshold. It's more than double what it was when I was earning. 

And and perhaps if they can reduce deficit and debt eventually, there will be the money that goes on interest payments now, freed up to bolster public services and welfare for those who really need it. 

[lambsy_uk]

As mentioned during PMQs; the idea is that employers pay decent wages rather than have tax payers top them up, who would argue with that?! This is why the Living Wage is set to rise!

[al**bear]

---

@lambsy_uk wrote:

As mentioned during PMQs; the idea is that employers pay decent wages rather than have tax payers top them up, who would argue with that?! This is why the Living Wage is set to rise!

---

BTW, It is not the Living wage - it is the minimum wage

(another sham put out by Osborne to deceive)

the Living wage needed now is already at £9.15/£8.00

Their plan is to have the minimum wage at £9.00 in 5 years time

Employers making up the shortfall, Yes over the next FIVE years ,

but these cuts will come into place in 7 months time,

the second cut in Tax credits they have suffered

--------------------------

Raising Tax band, the Tories always group 5 years Tax savings together,

to make them seem way more generous than they are,

they also Base the figures they release on People on Minimum wage working a full 40 hrs a week

[lambsy_uk]

---

@al**bear wrote:

---

@lambsy_uk wrote:

As mentioned during PMQs; the idea is that employers pay decent wages rather than have tax payers top them up, who would argue with that?! This is why the Living Wage is set to rise!

---

BTW, It is not the Living wage - it is the minimum wage

(another sham put out by Osborne to deceive)

the Living wage needed now is already at £9.15/£8.00

Their plan is to have the minimum wage at £9.00 in 5 years time

Employers making up the shortfall, Yes over the next FIVE years ,

but these cuts will come into place in 7 months time,

the second cut in Tax credits they have suffered

--------------------------

Raising Tax band, the Tories always group 5 years Tax savings together,

to make them seem way more generous than they are,

they also Base the figures they release on People on Minimum wage working a full 40 hrs a week

---

Maybe this is the problem with the Labour Party and their supporters, they view terms in office as a series of short-term fixes, things that will appease many of the electorate and hopefully gain favour for the next election. Trouble is over the longer term these short fixes lead to trouble, expensive trouble!

The Tories present long-term planning, trying to sort things for generations to come and not just for now. They are the ones left clearing the mess of all the short-sightedness and having to make the tough decisions that have short-term hurt but long-term benefits,

Thing is I think more and more people are getting to grips with this now, as the middle classes grow and the country prospers people are realising that short-termism is a rocky road and that the best path is one of long-term stability which will be layed if we strive ahead rather than stop for a rest and buy an ice cream!

[al**bear]

Our Deficit when Cameron came to power was NOT as bad as Greece as He and his party made & continue to make out. It was hardly different to Germanys and like Germany we owed most of this money to ourselves, not like Greece/Spain etc to the worlds markets.

The Deficit is the Bogeyman used as cover for the Torys to dismantle the State we have built since World War II

The National Debt has not fallen, it has DOUBLED since Cameron came to power £750bil to £1500bil, the savage cuts to Government Budgets haven't went to pay debt, they have been handed out to the wealthy and big Companies in Tax cuts etc

How much have we handed out to the Banks, to sort out their & Wall streets mistakes/crimes, mistakes/crimes Cameron & Osborne blame Gordon Brown for.  How much have we got back ?

We now pay private companies way over the odds to manage Government services that used to done much cheaper by the State

ALL for ideological reasons, not to help the Country

Massive amounts of Money that used to be used to improve services like Water, Power, Railways,  etc etc now flood out of the Country to European owners as profits, while they continually ramp up the prices they charge for these services.

Yes certainly looks like we are building a Country that will support our grandchildren.

Only if you are part of the 'Haves', the rest can rot.

[lambsy_uk]

More and more people are becoming part of the 'Haves', they have jobs, and homes and families and responsibilities and are becoming part of a productive society. Yes there may be some being left behind but the idea is to bring them along rather just leave some food out for them!

The deficit and debt are only a small part of the job, the main programme is jobs and stability; foundations that a future can be built upon!

[Anonymous]

More and more people become part of the Haves?

...there may be some being left behind?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@al**bear wrote:

Our Deficit when Cameron came to power was NOT as bad as Greece as He and his party made & continue to make out. It was hardly different to Germanys and like Germany we owed most of this money to ourselves, not like Greece/Spain etc to the worlds markets.

The Deficit is the Bogeyman used as cover for the Torys to dismantle the State we have built since World War II

The National Debt has not fallen, it has DOUBLED since Cameron came to power £750bil to £1500bil, the savage cuts to Government Budgets haven't went to pay debt, they have been handed out to the wealthy and big Companies in Tax cuts etc

How much have we handed out to the Banks, to sort out their & Wall streets mistakes/crimes, mistakes/crimes Cameron & Osborne blame Gordon Brown for.  How much have we got back ?

We now pay private companies way over the odds to manage Government services that used to done much cheaper by the State

ALL for ideological reasons, not to help the Country

Massive amounts of Money that used to be used to improve services like Water, Power, Railways,  etc etc now flood out of the Country to European owners as profits, while they continually ramp up the prices they charge for these services.

Yes certainly looks like we are building a Country that will support our grandchildren.

Only if you are part of the 'Haves', the rest can rot.

---

I'm no great fan of the Conservative party's method of government but I'm not so blind as to accept all the propaganda that comes from the left wing either.

To address just a few of the above points

National debt - historically speaking this is not particularly high - it has certainly been higher over quite long periods

Private companies are more expensive and paid 'over the odds' to carry out public services - I'm sure there are examples where this is the case, equally there are examples where it's not.

Money that was used to improve services are now taken as profit - taking one obvious example, railways, then this is simply not the case.  Investment in rail services and infrastructure is far, far higher than it ever was when they were solely in public hands.  Was it private management that was responsible for the demise of coal and steel?

[joamur_gosof]

both Al and Creeky here are correct,and this is what I feel is the wrong in this country...both sides use the rights to commit wrongs and its been like this since before thatcher but much more one sided wrongs since her.

We need All the right in one party and government and we need no wrong whatsoever in there...when this country decides to only accept whats right from any gov , the left right middle rubbish that has allowed politics to become a haven for fiddling corrupt  playing a bit of this off a bit of that will stop.

United Common Sense of whats right party that accepts mistakes happen then corrects them asap (not adds more to it) to power please....

[fallen-archie]

Not wishing to get involved in the politics of fiction, it is very important when rightly lambasting the corrupt bankers who lost millions, to also point out that underwrote the lives of many ordinary as opposed to rich people. The destruction of the welfare State could also be described as the management of it. If you take the original budget cost of running the NHS, index link it and you will find it has grown enormously way beyond its early assessment. Two world wars came close to bankrupting Britain yet we bemoan a government for seeking to provide a nuclear deterrent. I grew up in the "You've never had it so good " Era yet today most are far better off and long lived. 

What is worrying is the gap between rich and poor along with abject poverty in some of our inner cities and former industrial areas, but I do wonder if the growth of our welfare state has made some less committed to fending for themselves.

[joamur_gosof]

well yes vulnerable people in a civilized caring culture are not supposed to fend for themselves  or get out of the gene pool so the selfish can pretend they have 10p more than others.....

now vulnerable includes unfortunate but true people who cannot cope with work or the outside system...the thing that needed stopping was the abuse and theft of people from the pot, ie people working as well as getting benefits...the people who were managing to live and were happy to on the benefit were part of a society created for others to do nothing but get little..in the same way doing by jove all day should reward you with better toys and a holiday...Two different kind of people ,simple to understand if you see things as they really are on a ball in nowhere.

Now when politics takes up the mantel of a group of people vs another its called tyranny and that sums things up nicely in world politics all over the world. in some form or other

.it should be ''leaders deal with all problems for all and human race cheers heartily''  but of course 10p will always come first in this system.

No wrong or right anymore imo just wrong and confused  If everyone is to mill away the days for their (survival funds) then the mill had better be upgraded and dealt with to accept the massive influx of millers ...not good enough mill then  a system that

points out the non millers and says No good to us is Germanic ....so back to the tory pledge to sort out the mill ,to now this 'we were only kidding about creating a worth your milling time and just want a all mill for being alive.......say thank you' ,is bound to stick in the throats of all but the mill owners.