Seagulls?

[cee-dee]

OK, where are you birding types?

Every afternoon I go for a walk round the lake and from October to March it's visited every day by varying numbers of Seagulls (I dunno which species).

They don't seem to be finding any food, they seem to spend the day either floating around on the lake, (standing on the ice if it's frozen) or flying around overhead or perching on the electricity cables.

The do, however seem to steal any food the resident ducks, Coot and Moorhens find and also descend like screeching vultures if (like me) you throw any food to the residents.

The Moorhens and Coot are afraid of them and I've seen them duck if a gull flies over them even if the gull's not actually heading right for them.

I've seen gulls chasing Moorhens if it manages to get some food and I've seen the Coot diving to get away from a gull which then pursues the Coot relentlessly if it surfaces still holding on to the bit of food.

The ducks, being bigger don't seem to be bothered about the gulls but no matter where the Moorhens or Coot happen to be, a gull is stationed not far away and once it moves, other gulls come looking to see what's happening just in case there's any change of pinching some food another bird's found.

Now, how can it be worthwhile energy-wise for them to fly 20 miles or more to the lake, hang around all day for the meagre oddments they can scrounge/steal then fly all that way back?

Surely it would be easier to stay where they were, find what food they can there and not have to expend all that energy flying all that way?

In the morning I see them making their way inland and late afternoon I see them flying back the way they came.

[**bustysinclaire**]

I'd say just because they can be seen flying in a certain direction doesn't mean they are going all the way back to the coast.

If they are, it is possibly just a case of needs must.Tthey wont be doing it unless it is worth their while.

[right-then-petal]

[upthecreekyetagain]

Seagulls, Seagulls

[theelench]

I live in a seaside town, a few miles inland and opposite playing fields.  The are a few resident seagulls who station themselves on roof tops on the look-out for anything edible.  As there are two schools nearby there is a regular supply of discarded food, plus a few of us feed them and the other birds.  

The residents seem to have established territories on the best roof-tops for food grabbing and chase off any intruders.  They go on to nest and raise young.  There's also a varying number of non-resident gulls who have to settle for the more second rate roof tops, I suppose over time some residents get pushed out and new residents take over.  It must be that the sight of the residents attract the more mobile gulls, who wait around to see if it's worth trying to muscle-in and establish themselves.

They're very efficient scavengers and are attracted to anywhere a large number of humans can be seen.  They leave the roof-tops on Sunday mornings and can be seen patrolling around the football matches hoping for some easy pickings. Pinching food from each other, other birds or even animals goes with their aggressive nature.  I've seen dogs being taken for a walk on the playing fields drop their ball, the gulls are down to investigate before it stops rolling.  Where my mother lives there are squirrels and I've even seen gulls chasing them to try to rob them of nuts from the bird feeders.   

I would guess that it's the same around your lake, the available food will support a small number of gulls but there is a transient population as well.  The residents will have safe places to stay over night, the others fly in and out, perhaps not twenty miles to the coast but just to somewhere nearer, but safe to sleep. 

[cee-dee]

There's no "resident" gulls at the lake. From March onwards, there'll be no sign of them.

The thing is, when there's up to 37 seagulls (the most I've counted) hanging around all day in winter, there's no way they're all going to be able to pinch enough food to make the trip back and to worthwhile?

[fallen-archie]

All gulls are opportunist scavengers, and can be seen throughout the uk even at the furthest point inland from the sea, their fearless behaviour around other birds and indeed humans is well known and there are many birds who give the impression of being afraid and yet if they are nesting you will see them become far more aggressive towards gulls and other birds like crows and magpies! As for diet they will eat anything organic and frequently raid dustbins and follow the muckspreaders in the fields. Putting it as simplistically as possible if there were no pickings to be had in the vicinity they would soon go and scavenge elsewhere.

[cee-dee]

Yes, that's all very well and true but watching those gulls, they seem to just hang around, there's nothing to be had. When the weather's bad, there's very few people around and the resident Ducks, Moorhens and Coot just go about their normal routines not bothered about the gulls unless there's some obvious sign of them having found something pretty worthwhile to attract the gulls.

There's so many of them that as I said, there can't be enough food for all of them to make it worthwhile flying back and to.

OK, so sometimes people turn up at the lake with loaves of bread (yuk) and the ducks make for a feeding frenzy and their commotions are such that the gulls don't get a look in.

So, just how much food will each gull get during a day of hanging around? At the moment, they all clear off around 3:30pm and from my vantage point on this hill I see them all streaming back heading for the coast.

[fallen-archie]

As I said if they were not getting sufficient they would not hang around, not sure how much good they will consume in a day however I do know that they can go for fairly long periods without eating and store up energy when times are good.

[suzieseaside]

How do you know there is not enough food? Gulls will eat all sorts of food including insects, worms, small mammals etc. And might also be attracted by people feeding the ducks.
I doubt they would visit if it wasn't worth their while.

[theelench]

Perhaps they're simply desperate.  If they've been forced out of better oportunities on the coast they could be flying to your lake for the little they can get as it's better than staying on the coast and getting even less?

[cee-dee]

Like I've said, I've watched them and they don't seem to be doing any feeding. They're just floating around screeching. Failing that they're just flying round and round or perching on the electricity cables. If one moves, they all move like a flock of flying sheep.

I fool them many times by just waving an arm, they're thinking there's food being thrown, one moves, they all move.

Yes, sometimes people "feed the ducks" and there's a frenzy of activity, so much so the seagulls don't get a look in. There's an old saying, "The onlooker sees most of the game"?

We shall see how many are there today. The fog is coming down again, the sun has gone, visibility is doiwn to 100 yards now. I shall report back

[cee-dee]

Yesterday Afternoon there were 33 gulls on the lake. Some were standing on the part which still had ice and the rest were just paddling around in the open water. I didn't see any of them making any effort to get food.

They did all fly around when anyone walked round the lake and when a couple went to feed the ducks, some took off, the others stayed put but it didn't do the flyers any good because the people feeding were using bird seed of some sort. The ducks were in a frenzy so they must have liked it. After the initial approach, the gulls just went back to where they were previously.

Now I know gulls follow the plough and obviously find food from the freshly turned soil but the gulls on the lake are not finding food like the resident birds. The ducks and Moorhens walk out on the banks and in to the woods, the Coot seem to find food by diving but those gulls are doing nothing to find their own food.

"They wouldn't do it if it wasn't worth their while"? So, it's worthwhile flying all the way here and all the way back just on the off-chance they can pinch some food from the few people who go to feed the ducks? They must be able to manage on very little when there's 33 of them?

[suzieseaside]

Clearly they are not too weak to do the distance or they wouldn't do it, if in fact they have come all the way from the coast, which they may not have. A marine life is not mandatory for a gull especially herring gulls. Even if they hang out at the coast in summer it may be too windy at the moment (we've had plenty of strong winds) and pickings might be slim. They might have fed on the way, scavenging all sorts of things in urban or rural areas. There must be plenty of hours in the day when you are not watching them.

Maybe they just like to rest and hang out with freshwater on their undercarriage!

[cee-dee]

You're right that I'm not watching them all the time, however, I talk to dog walkers who go there more than once a day. I'm told the gulls arrive early and I know they leave just before dusk. Also, as I've said before I live on a hill and see the gulls making their way inland in the morning and heading "home" in the late afternoon.

I guess the gulls come from "the coast" and probably spend some time on the Dee marshes on the Dee estuary.

It's not that windy so there's no problem on that score and when it is windy, I've watched them tacking back and to when they're making way against the wind.

Obviously I can't tell which gull is which but some seem to "recognise" me because they seem to know that I throw food to the Coot and Moorhens in specific places = under overhanging bushes where the gulls can't dive-bomb the birds. When I'm walking round, some head for those places, hoping for a free lunch which they might get if some of the ducks start fighting causing a bit of food to get splattered out from under the bush.

They're opportunist thieves and if one appears to be getting something, another appears and before long the whole flock is flying around hoping for a chance. I'm sure they'd end up with more food and expend less energy if they just stayed put and worked at finding what they could.

[fallen-archie]

I too prefer fresh water on my undercarriage😳 Overall if they are fit and healthy , they must be finding food and simply feel at home on water which also offers a degree of shelter. They tend to live in colonies and move around accordingly. I knew a chap who used to farm mink, in the middle of nowhere, when it came to feeding time gulls would appear as if by magic in the hopes of getting some pickings which invariably they did from right under the noses of aggressive mink, as soon as the food disappeared so to did the gulls, perhaps they returned to the local reservoir or farm pit or even your lake, who knows?

[cee-dee]

Today there were 27 gulls, all doing their usual hanging around. The Coot and Moorhens were as wary as ever and I fooled the gulls several times by waving an arm.

It's people they're hanging around for hoping to pinch something thrown to the ducks. A couple of times I clapped my hands causing them all to fly off in a flock allowing the other birds to get the food I'd got unmolested.

However, one gull became very hard-face and hung around refusing to be startled by clapping and because that one was hanging around it intimidated the Coot and Moorhens.

Steangely, there were no gulls hanging around a bloke fishing even though he was using a catapult to throw bait.

[cee-dee]

Well today it was different. I got there, not a gull in sight. 5 minutes later there was a flock of 27 (yes, I stop and count them) all fl;oating around but they didn't "land", they kept flying round and round overhead.

Is it "the flock instinct" (as distinct from the herd instinct)? Some do something and they all follow?

Anyway, they kept on flying round in a flock but the Moorhens and Coot were still disturbed by their presence. Also, someone fed a load of bread to the ducks but after a while, the ducks left it and so did the gulls.

[fallen-archie]

If there was bread available and they didn’t eat it then they ain’t hungry! Perhaps they are on a calorie controlled diet.
Not sure why gulls flock but most birds do in order to protect themselves against predators starlings being a classic example.

[cee-dee]

Speaking of flocks, a coupl;e of weeks ago there was more than a flock of Jackdaws. They were just like a flock of starlings, there were hundreds and hundreds of them. I didn't see any other members of the crow family and it was "Chack-chack-chack" for about ten minutes.