Immigration. Points system?

[cee-dee]

Are you in favour of a points system? If so, why so?

Me? No. I think that before any other factors are considered, several fundamental issues should be satisfied.

At the top of the list should be a good standard of spoken English and a "reasonable" standard of written English. Then, a definitive acceptance of the British way of life, behavour and dress.

Really, if you can't satisfy those fundamentals, why the heck do you want to come here?

OK folks, what have you got to say on the subject?

[Anonymous]

Hmmm. I do feel that people should learn the language when they arrive here. When people flee for their lives you can't expect them to know any other language but their own.

Of course they have to integrate in a society and abide by the rules of the land and try to find work just like the rest of us.

That's about it really.

[cee-dee]

Ah, I'm on about immigration, not assylum seeking.

[evoman3957]

We vote " Brexit " to leave a bunch of hypocritical, pompous, arrogant , gutless, wonders, who tell us that if we don't honour their principle of the free movement of people within the EU, we won't be permitted to trade with them for free.  They THEN talk ( some countries ) of putting up borders to stop the flow of immigrants and one of the FOUNDING members.........France........ignore one of the main rules of the EU......that asylum seekers should claim refuge in the FIRST safe country they arrive in.....by letting them congregate in Calais ( UNREGISTERED ) and trying to tell us it's OUR problem.  If there's one thing I've always prided myself with in life, it's knowing who my friends are and being fussy about the company I keep............a lesson far too many have yet to learn.  Like I've said in previous posts, next time these pathetic specimens squeal for help ( particularly France ) it will fall on deaf ears.

[**forum-decorum**]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Ah, I'm on about immigration, not assylum seeking.

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I understand the differences, but it all boils down to the same thing in my opinion, as the peoples from any other country coming here are seeking a better life, whether it be escaping with their life from their own country or escaping appalling conditions and oppression.

We are all human beings regardless of race creed or colour and are all entitled to the same standards of living and care. You certainly can't blame any specific person for wanting that.  

It is quite clear that man kind has failed in governing themselves where fairness to all is concerned. In most cases it is greed and prejudice that has caused this terrible problem.

I personally have no problem with people from other lands entering this country seeking a better life. To me all are equal and entitled.

I do however agree that anyone entering to be a permanent resident should be required to learn English, seek work and abide by the laws of this country.  That should also be a requirement accepted by anyone of us should we wish to migrate to another country to take up permanent residency there.

[Anonymous]

Ok, same for immigrants.

I'm an immigrant. Do you think I tick all the boxes?

[astrologica]

I really don't care what type of system  we have, as long as it drastically reduces the numbers of people coming here to live. It is a matter of numbers. Every city and large town in this country is overcrowded...the whole country is overcrowded. Newcomers want to live with their own kind, and don't want to integrate with people who were born here. And I would like to know if every person who is allowed to come, will then be allowed to bring his/her Mother, Father, Son, Daughter, Auntie, Uncle, Grannie etc, etc. That is the madness. And it also might be a good idea if ALL the people in this country, whether immigrant or born here, we're encouraged to have just 2 children. That would be taking a long term view.  Give new arrivals lessons in English and Birth Control as soon as possible.

There was a programme about Conservation on TV this morning, and the person who was being asked about conservation, was asked if the future of conservation was improving. He replied that yes...there is improvement, but that no-one , no-one...ever talks about the biggest problem, and that is overpopulation. The poorest people in this world are Catholics and Muslims..and it is obvious why that is. Both of those religions encourage children to be born into poverty, and sometimes war. We do not need that here. 

I really do not have much hope in Mrs May....she is doing exactly what I thought she would do.....dragging her kitten heels. The points system does have merit, but at the same time we need to bring in identity cards, and anyone found not to have one who is an illegal, should be shipped out pretty quickly. There should be no reward for dishonesty or criminality.

[cee-dee]

Yes, I know you are. To start with you have a good command of the language and over the years I've mixed it with you, you seem quite OK.

Some of the people coming here certainly don't tick many (if any) boxes. They come here by any means they can and although they might have been here for some time (a number of years) they don't bother to learn the language or seem to have much (if any) respect for the country or its Laws.

Just a few things..... some manage to rent properties then straight away illegally sub-let to other immigrants, packing them in with little regard to safety or hygiene. They charge extortionate rent then (in many cases) don't pay anything to the proper Landlord until called to book in Court.....

Some illegals, having got here by whatever means they could, then compound their illegality by employing other illegals and extort money from them either for their "travel", their living quarters or both.

Some of the "clever" migrants set up businesses which manufacture fake documents for other illegals or fake "schools" where other migrants claim to be studying who then work here illegally on "student" visas and so it goes on.

When caught, some of the illegals claim not to have passports or other documents from their country of origin and due to do-gooders here having twisted our legal system to bend over backwards with both hands tied, the system is daft enough to let them go again on the proviso that they report to the cops regularly while their status can be checked. Of course, most of them never do and just disappear again......

Back to you.....

[**forum-decorum**]

I'd say the type of immigrant you are describing is in the minority.

But in every land you will get self centred, greedy, disrespectful unlawful people.

[joe_bloggs*]

The tories will never go for a points based system as it's too egalitarian for them,if they thought they could get away with it,they would go for a wealth based system of entry,but they can't so it's back to the drawing board

[al**bear]

Just think

If France & Spain, brought in the same criteria, a high % of ex-pats on the Costas and in the French Countryside, would be dumped back on our shores

[astrologica]

Not necessarily...they could always apply for French/Spanish citizenship if they want to stay.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

The tories will never go for a points based system as it's too egalitarian for them,if they thought they could get away with it,they would go for a wealth based system of entry,but they can't so it's back to the drawing board

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The UK already has a wealth based right of residence as do the US and Australia

https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor

• apply to settle after 2 years if you invest £10 million
• apply to settle after 3 years if you invest £5 million

[soppysofty]

We live in Aldershot and, as a result of Joanna Luley's work on behalf of the Gurkhas, we are now inundated with Nepalise of every generation.

These people are here legally as  a result of Ms Lumley's success.

Our housing situation was full to bursting before they arrived, now it is impossible to secure any rented accommodation in either the private sector or in social housing through the council.

Our housing waiting list before the Nepalese arrived was an average of 5 years, now it is 12 years and growing.

Our doctors surgeries are now overloaded and our practice, which use to offer emergency same day appointments and the ability to book up to 2 weeks in advance for 'non urgent matters' now can only take emergency appointments so long as you are one of the first 32 that call up in the morning.

Same senario with or local dentists.  You cannot find an NHS dentist to register with within a 5 mile radius of home and, for those lucky enough to have a dentist, we need to book up to 3 weeks in advance for emergency treatment.

Our local NHS Hospital is now running at full capacity and the waiting lists for any consultations are over double what they where 2 years ago.

As far as language goes - we are now in the situation that, in Aldershot, you will hear Nepalese more often than you will hear English and the Nepalese have no intention of learning our language.

Aldershot, the home of the British Army?????

And now we are being told to take in more!?

Time someone had the guts to put up the closed sign and sort out the situation we are in now.

[**forum-decorum**]

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@soppysofty wrote:

We live in Aldershot and, as a result of Joanna Luley's work on behalf of the Gurkhas, we are now inundated with Nepalise of every generation.

These people are here legally as  a result of Ms Lumley's success.

Our housing situation was full to bursting before they arrived, now it is impossible to secure any rented accommodation in either the private sector or in social housing through the council.

Our housing waiting list before the Nepalese arrived was an average of 5 years, now it is 12 years and growing.

Our doctors surgeries are now overloaded and our practice, which use to offer emergency same day appointments and the ability to book up to 2 weeks in advance for 'non urgent matters' now can only take emergency appointments so long as you are one of the first 32 that call up in the morning.

Same senario with or local dentists.  You cannot find an NHS dentist to register with within a 5 mile radius of home and, for those lucky enough to have a dentist, we need to book up to 3 weeks in advance for emergency treatment.

Our local NHS Hospital is now running at full capacity and the waiting lists for any consultations are over double what they where 2 years ago.

As far as language goes - we are now in the situation that, in Aldershot, you will hear Nepalese more often than you will hear English and the Nepalese have no intention of learning our language.

Aldershot, the home of the British Army?????

And now we are being told to take in more!?

Time someone had the guts to put up the closed sign and sort out the situation we are in now.

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Most of those examples you post about are situations in every town/city or village across the country, it isn't down to just immigrants coming in   There just has to be a completely new strategy to overcome it the best way we all can.  In my opinion we will never be able to do so, as it is out if control the problem is far too big now.

[evoman3957]

Well it needs to be sorted out , because if it isn't ; a comparatively hitherto united society, will become a destabilised and divided society and you don't have to look very far to see what THAT produces.

[astrologica]

A new strategy.....that sounds like a very good idea. A big part of that strategy should be birth control, otherwise in 10-20 years time this country is going to be totally over-run. FD....do you really believe that if we hadn't had immigration on the scale that has occurred, that we would still have the crises in Housing, Education, Health etc. that we have now? This is rapidly becoming like a third world country.

[**forum-decorum**]

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@astrologica wrote:

A new strategy.....that sounds like a very good idea. A big part of that strategy should be birth control, otherwise in 10-20 years time this country is going to be totally over-run. FD....do you really believe that if we hadn't had immigration on the scale that has occurred, that we would still have the crises in Housing, Education, Health etc. that we have now? This is rapidly becoming like a third world country.

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Astro I understand what you're saying, but I just wonder if it is our right to refuse others the same as we have had. Most of us here I should think have had a good home, been well fed and clothed, had relative freedom to live how we choose, and have as many offspring as we have felt is right for us, that is all anyone else wants.

Isn't it going a bit too far stipulating how many children a couple are entitled too. I don't want to go into actual religions here but you talk about my faith being too controlling but surely taking away certain freedoms from human beings as you suggest is very much the same.? Every human being in my opinion should be treated equally, it is not the immigrants fault if the country they were born in is run in a way that starves and endangers their people.

[evoman3957]

If you were to make all men / women equal, in stature & wealth, all you would do is destroy ambition, creativity & innovation.  The wealth creators wouldn't exist ( no point ) and neither would the jobs they create. There would be no progress, because there would be no innovators or inventors and there would be no innovators or inventors; because there would be no incentive.

[**forum-decorum**]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

If you were to make all men / women equal, in stature & wealth, all you would do is destroy ambition, creativity & innovation.  The wealth creators wouldn't exist ( no point ) and neither would the jobs they create. There would be no progress, because there would be no innovators or inventors and there would be no innovators or inventors; because there would be no incentive.

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Mmmmmmmm, see what you mean xxx depends in what context you mean equal.  Xxxxx 

We are all individual yes, with different abilities and qualities etc, the equal being none more superior than the other and all with equal entitlements etc.

We are not robots, how boring that would be. xxxxxxx