Swedish Customs Query

[aphystykqa]

Hi, I sold an item to a buyer in Sweden recently and posted it by Royal Mail International Tracked on the 5.1.24, and the item arrived at Swedish Customs on 11.1.24 - and (7 days later) - the parcel is still there today with a message on the postnord(dot)se website saying :- 'Waiting for payment of taxes and duties'.

Now, this is certainly not the first time that I have sent items and they've taken quite a while to clear through customs, but, in this instance, the buyer is an Ebay-newbie with only 2 feedbacks, so I would expect him to be a bit concerned as to why it is still not arrived at his address (13 days later) from when I first sent it.

When this Swedish customs is saying that it is waiting for payment of taxes and duties. Is it because Ebay is being a slow-coach 'as it were' and taking longer than expected to forward on the TAX/VAT which was taken from the buyer during checkout ? As what other reason would it take over 7 days to clear

When I post International parcels using the Royal Mail. I fill in the CN22 form, and I manually write out the IOSS number for Ebay, and also put one of those IOSS stickers on the parcel, and write Ebay on it. This is the way I have done it ever since this new system came along, and have had 100% success so far - even though Ebay would rather 100% of it's customers switch to the Global Shipping Programme (naturally) - but I'm afraid, there is still too many of us who are stickler for tradition, and prefer to just use Royal Mail and the Post Office..

[four_mid_able]

"TAX/VAT which was taken from the buyer during checkout ?" i thought that only happened if seller used GSP.

Maybe there are other taxes/import duties involved (over and above the 20% vat Ebay add as standard),have you contacted the buyer ?.

[papso22]

Ebay deals with the import taxes for anything under £135, outside of GSP.

[tommystrezures]

What was the value of the item? If under £135 then the vat would have been charged at checkout here. It is nothing to do with ebay being slow at forwarding monies its all about if the electronic customs data submission was done correctly at your post office. Those data submissions land with customs within an hour generally if done correctly. (we only found out by having a query in Denmark months ago)

So on the receipt you received from the post office did they declare the customs information correctly? ON your receipt it should state RM Customs Data  and a zero value under the main cost of the item.

When tracking states waiting for duty to be paid that means from the recipient. Ensure your tracking is uploaded against the order (if not already0 so ebay can see the item is in transit).

[aphystykqa]

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@four_mid_able wrote:

"TAX/VAT which was taken from the buyer during checkout ?" i thought that only happened if seller used GSP.

Maybe there are other taxes/import duties involved (over and above the 20% vat Ebay add as standard),have you contacted the buyer ?.

---

I've done quite a few deals with buyers from Sweden in the past, so my question was mainly in relation to what is likely attributed to this recent delay, and has anything recently changed with Ebay lately on international transactions by sellers using the Royal Mail , or on Swedish transactions.

No, I not contacted the buyer as yet. I will do if this delay goes on too long. VAT is 25% in Sweden, but as I said, I not had any issues before with Sweden nor any other country

What papso22 replied to you answers your first question

[aphystykqa]

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@tommystrezures wrote:

What was the value of the item? If under £135 then the vat would have been charged at checkout here. It is nothing to do with ebay being slow at forwarding monies its all about if the electronic customs data submission was done correctly at your post office. Those data submissions land with customs within an hour generally if done correctly. (we only found out by having a query in Denmark months ago)

So on the receipt you received from the post office did they declare the customs information correctly? ON your receipt it should state RM Customs Data  and a zero value under the main cost of the item.

When tracking states waiting for duty to be paid that means from the recipient. Ensure your tracking is uploaded against the order (if not already0 so ebay can see the item is in transit).

---

Every item I send abroad is carried out in the exact same way as I always have since this system began. I declare the amount that the item sold for on Ebay, which in this case was £89 + £15 P&P. When I click on the Order Details in My Ebay, it states that Ebay charged the buyer at checkout £26 for VAT, so the buyer has paid that amount, so it should not be a problem in Sweden, as the people working at Customs shall no-doubt have Eyes and a Brain lol. What more could they possibly ask for to get inbound parcels run swiftly through Customs and on to the recipient in Sweden awaiting the parcel.

As for what the Manager at the Post Office, who is the person who dealt with this parcel, and has many many years of experience (I will say) - then I have no idea whether 'he' did things correctly or incorrectly, as I am stood by the counter, and he is stood behind a protective clear window dealing with the parcel, the computer, and writing things on the CN22 form which he gets to fill in, such as the weight, etc.. - so everything which I filled in on the form all tallies with what I usually do.

As I said originally in my OP. This is certainly not the first time that a parcel has taken quite a few days to pass through the Customs system, but, I thought in this instance, it's worth coming here in the community and asking. Especially as the buyer is a 2 feedback newbie, and may contact me soon looking for answers. Naturally I would just tell him what I know, and that is that it's held in customs awaiting clearance (in other words) they want their taxes/VAT lol. At least, that's what it says on their website

[jckl1957]

IOSS information has to be added electronically.

If you just write it on the parcel or customs label it does not prove that the buyer has paid the appropriate tax and the item may be held up at customs.

I always use Royal Mail Click and Drop when sending abroad as this service does add the details electronically to the label.

Alternatively, this can be done by the Post Office but not all staff check and not all staff have adequate training to enter the details correctly.

This is what the Post Office say:

Marketplace sellers who sell via Amazon, eBay, Etsy and NotOnTheHighStreet can continue to visit their local Post Office in the normal way. Those customers should declare which of these marketplaces their items were sold on when presenting them at the Post Office counter and the Post Office branch will capture this information. The correct marketplace IOSS number will then be allocated to your item by Royal Mail. If you are selling goods on other marketplace places you can use the Royal Mail Click & Drop service – where you will find instructions how to do this.

[aphystykqa]

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@tommystrezures wrote:

When tracking states waiting for duty to be paid that means from the recipient. Ensure your tracking is uploaded against the order (if not already0 so ebay can see the item is in transit).

---

I just missed your last bit of your post - in my last reply to you. The answer is 'Yes', I immediately placed the Tracking Number of the parcel against the item on Ebay on the day I sent it, so Ebay is fully aware of the situation.

Yes indeed, when I read that Customs is awaiting to be paid TAX duty, then that did concern me, since the buyer/recipient has already paid that tax at checkout on Ebay. No doubt, the last thing ANY buyer wants to do is to have to pay VAT 'Twice'. I have read before in Ebay community of both buyers and sellers complaining about this problem, hence why the GSP became more popular, as that system deals with the whole transaction electronically, so there is no room for any error. But when you dealing with 'Human Beings' lol, well, yes, someone can make a mistake. But that someone is not myself, as I did everything correctly. It's far too much of an ongoing routine (on my part) so I can't forget anything, and there isn't really that much on the CN22 form to fill in anyway for the seller

[maldon-jewellery]

Hello,

Post Nord is a PAIN in the rear end.

I post to Sweden every week using RM and you have to MANUALLY click the button on Post Nord  to have post nord process the packet/parcel through customs.

I queried this with them many months ago as ebay and amazon customers were not getting notified and I now manually have to click the button myself!  Nord Post replied that "That's the way they do it"

Incredible in 2024

IF the packet was not manifested in time, Royal mail, I have learned, does not pass on the IOSS information and the customer is expected to pay and is shown the payment request.  I have one at the moment.

The URL for the packet tracking is

https://www.postnord.se/en/our-tools/track-and-trace#dynamicloading=true&shipmentid=(TRACKING  NUMBER HERE)

Good luck

I just tried attaching a screenshot of Post Nord but ebay doesn't;t like png or pdf, so, sorry.

[maldon-jewellery]

I just reread your post.

From my experience, if you are seeing that the customer is expected to pay taxes then it will be returned to you.

As I previously mentioned. 

I moaned at Poste Nord and they said that there was no IOSS associated with the order.

I moaned at Royal Mail and they said because I hadn't manifested that packet until after midnight then the IOSS information transmitted would have been generic and not Ebay's IOSS.

Eventually, the packet came back to me as no one was going to pay again PLUS the handling charge!

[aphystykqa]

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@maldon-jewellery wrote:

Hello,

Post Nord is a PAIN in the rear end.

I post to Sweden every week using RM and you have to MANUALLY click the button on Post Nord  to have post nord process the packet/parcel through customs.

I queried this with them many months ago as ebay and amazon customers were not getting notified and I now manually have to click the button myself!  Nord Post replied that "That's the way they do it"

Incredible in 2024

IF the packet was not manifested in time, Royal mail, I have learned, does not pass on the IOSS information and the customer is expected to pay and is shown the payment request.  I have one at the moment.

The URL for the packet tracking is

https://www.postnord.se/en/our-tools/track-and-trace#dynamicloading=true&shipmentid=(TRACKING  NUMBER HERE)

Good luck

I just tried attaching a screenshot of Post Nord but ebay doesn't;t like png or pdf, so, sorry.

---

Thankyou for your help, and highlighting this 'Incompetancy' of  Sweden's Customs and Postal Service. Perhaps Ebay shall have to make some changes and advise sellers to totally Boycott Sweden buyers altogether, unless of course they use the GSP. There is no need for one country in the world to have incomentency to this level. As sellers, we expect when we post parcels to any country in the world, that as long as we do the job correctly at our-end, then the same should apply to countries like Sweden. I must admit, I am both shocked and disappointed.

I will say though that there has been no issues in the past with Swedish customers receiving their parcels from me, so this must be some 'recent' change. Of course, I shall have to contact the Buyer and phone Ebay customer services as well. What a load of unncecessary hassle, which should be easily avoidable..

What I always do when I send a parcel abroad, or even to addresses in The UK, is, that I go on Royal Mail's UK website, and click on 'Track Your Item' - and then I type in the Tracking number for that parcel, and then it tells me the progress of how far the parcel has gotten. But once it's left The UK, then a link appears for myself to click on - on a red rectangular coloured link with the words Continue Tracking, so I click on that, and it takes me directly to Post Nord, and the tracking number appears automatically from left to right, and then I see all the details, and a message saying 'Stopped Waiting for payment of taxes and duties' - then there is an over-edged rectangular link saying 'Customs and VAT', so I click that, and it opens another window at (portal(dot)postnord.com/) - then I click another link, where it's asking the buyer to pay 389.00 kr

*bleep* ???? - well, something has certainly got wrong !!

[aphystykqa]

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@jckl1957 wrote:

IOSS information has to be added electronically.

If you just write it on the parcel or customs label it does not prove that the buyer has paid the appropriate tax and the item may be held up at customs.

I always use Royal Mail Click and Drop when sending abroad as this service does add the details electronically to the label.

Alternatively, this can be done by the Post Office but not all staff check and not all staff have adequate training to enter the details correctly.

This is what the Post Office say:

Marketplace sellers who sell via Amazon, eBay, Etsy and NotOnTheHighStreet can continue to visit their local Post Office in the normal way. Those customers should declare which of these marketplaces their items were sold on when presenting them at the Post Office counter and the Post Office branch will capture this information. The correct marketplace IOSS number will then be allocated to your item by Royal Mail. If you are selling goods on other marketplace places you can use the Royal Mail Click & Drop service – where you will find instructions how to do this.

---

Yes, I am aware of all of this. I have no wish to change the way in which I post parcels, so the 'Royal Mail Click and Drop' system - which I already knew about btw, is not a path I will choose to take. 100% of every parcel I have ever sent abroad (and believe you me, there has been quite a lot over the many years past) has 'Never' had this problem before. And as for Post Office staff and their 'compentency' - well, it was the Post Office manager who served me, and he is no amateur for sure. Only two people work at this post office, and he is one of them. So there is no question upon his experience.

All I do, is exactly what I wrote in my OP on the CN22 forms. The manager gave me some IOSS stickers, where I write (manually) the Ebay IM IOSS number, and write on there EBAY. I also write the IOSS number on the CN22 form, and the Manager or other post office staff member who serves me does the rest on their computer, so as where you say it has to be done electronically. Well, that 'I assume' is what the manager does on his computer. Not that I witness exactly what he does, as it's not facing the post office counter. But as it's always worked, then I am shocked and surprised that it's gone wrong with this parcel to Sweden. It's a new one on me, and it looks like I'll soon have no choice but to boycott Sweden - which is a shame. I say this in respect of what maldon-jewellery has just wrote in his reply in this thread. If he is selling lots to Sweden (as he says) and each time it keeps going wrong, then this is a Swedish issue

[aphystykqa]

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@maldon-jewellery wrote:

I just reread your post.

From my experience, if you are seeing that the customer is expected to pay taxes then it will be returned to you.

As I previously mentioned. 

I moaned at Poste Nord and they said that there was no IOSS associated with the order.

I moaned at Royal Mail and they said because I hadn't manifested that packet until after midnight then the IOSS information transmitted would have been generic and not Ebay's IOSS.

Eventually, the packet came back to me as no one was going to pay again PLUS the handling charge!

---

I will contact the Ebay buyer first, and then I shall contact Postnord(dot)se, as I cannot simply leave it like this. I don't sell on Ebay, and get paid by a Buyer, then post a parcel, to simply have it sent back to me, because Postnord cannot get their act together !!!!!!! 😡

[jckl1957]

Not to labour the point, but my best guess would be, given the issue you describe, that the IOSS information has not been uploaded correctly.

I worked in the Post Office for two years and @tommystrezures still does work (I believe), operating a mobile Post Office.

You didn't answer his relevant question - 'So on the receipt you received from the post office did they declare the customs information correctly? ON your receipt it should state RM Customs Data and a zero value under the main cost of the item.'

Does your receipt/proof of posting show this?

Like you, I have never had an issue sending items abroad.  However, there is always a first time when procedures are not followed correctly and you fall foul of overseas customs.

[aphystykqa]

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@jckl1957 wrote:

Not to labour the point, but my best guess would be, given the issue you describe, that the IOSS information has not been uploaded correctly.

I worked in the Post Office for two years and @tommystrezures still does work (I believe), operating a mobile Post Office.

You didn't answer his relevant question - 'So on the receipt you received from the post office did they declare the customs information correctly? ON your receipt it should state RM Customs Data and a zero value under the main cost of the item.'

Does your receipt/proof of posting show this?

Like you, I have never had an issue sending items abroad.  However, there is always a first time when procedures are not followed correctly and you fall foul of overseas customs.

---

As with your conclusion that the Manager who served me at my local Post Office did not enter the IOSS information correctly. Well, the only piece of information that I have, is the certificate of posting which I have, with the Tracking Reference number on. So myself and the buyer can only be left both dangling and guessing at this point, without further clarification on the matter. However, I have just sent an e-mail to postnord(dot)se in Sweden and asked them to look into this, and given them all the details I think they need. To hopefully resolve this matter once and for all. I also messaged the buyer, to keep him upto speed.

On the Certificate of Posting receipt, it states as follows :-
1) Posting date
2) Session ID:
3) After last acceptance time?
4) Destination Country
5) Address Validated?
6) Int Tracked Sml Pcl
7) Weight
😎Item Value
9) Conditions Accepted
10) Reference Number (Tracking number)

11) Building Name or Number

12 Postcode

That is all. Not sure what you are saying about 'RM Customs Data' ?? - What data ??

As for  your assertion that the Item Value should be set to Zero. Well, I think the person or (any) person who serves me at a Post Office, would find it strange if I took your advice, and said the item inside the parcel is worth Zero lol. Also, if the parcel got lost, stolen or damaged, then I'd get Zero Pounds and Zero Pence in compensation, wouldn't I ? I would have to be a complete and utter idiot to do that, so, the answer is 100% 'No'. Of course I put the exact value of what the item sold for, as that is called 'Obeying the Law' and 'Not' defrauding the Customs. Not sure why you even said this to me, or expected 'anyone' to do such a thing 🤔

[jckl1957]

'As for  your assertion that the Item Value should be set to Zero. Well, I think the person or (any) person who serves me at a Post Office, would find it strange if I took your advice, and said the item inside the parcel is worth Zero lol. Also, if the parcel got lost, stolen or damaged, then I'd get Zero Pounds and Zero Pence in compensation, wouldn't I ? I would have to be a complete and utter idiot to do that, so, the answer is 100% 'No'. Of course I put the exact value of what the item sold for, as that is called 'Obeying the Law' and 'Not' defrauding the Customs. Not sure why you even said this to me, or expected 'anyone' to do such a thing'

I was not suggesting you should say the value of the item was zero.  As the seller you add the value to the CN22.  This was simply the wording that another mentor said should appear on the Post Office receipt.  'RM Customs Data and a zero value under the main cost of the item.'  My assumption is that the 'zero' refers to the amount of tax the buyer has to pay.  Hopefully @tommystrezures might come back to the post to clarify.

[tommystrezures]

Morning all, will have to be relatively quick for now. Yes @jckl1957  still operate a mobile outreach service to one of the villages here, and also work one morning a week managing our main branch!

To clear a couple of things up as I was in somewhat of a rush last night, when I originally posted. On the cash receipt it will have the value of the service eg £15 on one line then under neath it will have RM customs data 0.00. That zero refers to no charge for submitting the data. I attach a copy from our drop and go account to highlight it, but on the paper receipt it shows the same. So the question was does this show on the cash receipt? (which you should have in any event to make any claim against RM so you can prove postage costs)

You mention that the fee to pay is 389kr, which is about £30, eg25%  which would imply that the VAT submission they have missed or has not been correctly submitted this end, and that is why I wanted to know if its this end or their end.

There are odd occasions where a customs authority misses things, however the buyer should pay and this link for the buyer if submitted to ebay should see them reimbursed. 

https://ocswf.ebay.co.uk/mudcwf?deptName=CollectRemitRefund

[papso22]

I have a feeling that the VAT refund system through ebay only works when eBay has mistakenly charged VAT.   Here the mistake seems to be by the P.O, and eBay charged it correctly. The buyer would therefore need to claim from their customs authority.  I may be wrong though.

[jckl1957]

Thank you for that.

Hopefully other sellers will read the thread and realise that IOSS only works to confirm the buyer has paid the required taxes to Ebay when added electronically - by the seller or the P.O.

[aphystykqa]

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@jckl1957 wrote:

'As for  your assertion that the Item Value should be set to Zero. Well, I think the person or (any) person who serves me at a Post Office, would find it strange if I took your advice, and said the item inside the parcel is worth Zero lol. Also, if the parcel got lost, stolen or damaged, then I'd get Zero Pounds and Zero Pence in compensation, wouldn't I ? I would have to be a complete and utter idiot to do that, so, the answer is 100% 'No'. Of course I put the exact value of what the item sold for, as that is called 'Obeying the Law' and 'Not' defrauding the Customs. Not sure why you even said this to me, or expected 'anyone' to do such a thing'

I was not suggesting you should say the value of the item was zero.  As the seller you add the value to the CN22.  This was simply the wording that another mentor said should appear on the Post Office receipt.  'RM Customs Data and a zero value under the main cost of the item.'  My assumption is that the 'zero' refers to the amount of tax the buyer has to pay.  Hopefully @tommystrezures might come back to the post to clarify.

---

As a customer of the Post Office, I simply fill in the CN22 form as I am supposed to do, and in the correct way, I write my name, write out my address, then the description of the item I am sending abroad, It's quantity, I enter it's exact value-amount which it sold on Ebay for, and I tick the box for 'sale of goods', and in the box which states 'Commercial items only; if known enter the HS tariff no. & origin' - where I enter the IOSS number for Ebay which is IOSS - IM2760000742. Then I put the days date and signature it. That is all 'Any' customer can do. So,  Whatever the staff/manager does behind the counter window and on his computer, is totally unbeknown to myself - or to 'any' other customer he deals with, as the computer screen (naturally) is faced away from the prying-eyes of people they serve, naturally for reasons of (Privacy) Data Protection Act breaches, etc.. etc.. So, whatever he does, I haven't a clue.