Payment dispute- CHARGEBACK SCAM.....SELLERS BEWARE!!!!!!

[vallybyone]

Sellers Beware of the latest scam!!! 'Payment dispute- Chargebacks ', the buyer purchases your item, then files a chargeback against the pay-pal or credit card company . The money is then taken out of your account, plus fees and you have NO recourse!!! The buyer will come up with a lame excuse, item significantly not as described, not received, etc. more of the scammers are using this payment dispute scam to get the  item and the money back , is not safe to sale on eBay anymore as eBay and PayPal are in conflict and scammers know that so they use PayPal for payment dispute and eBay can’t do  anything for you but to chargeback your account this is happening more and more. BEWARE!!!!! We will start to see a trend...

[rightgrand]

Has this actually happened to you or is this just something you've heard?  Any specific details?

As far as I know Ebay does give you a right to provide your side of the story when this happens.

It's basically like any other dispute, but with an extra fee if you lose the case.

[vallybyone]

yes this is happened to me on 2 items and I came to find out that this is a way to scam anyone on eBay  and Ebay can't ofer any protection as a finacial dispute is decided by the financial institution not Ebay 

[vallybyone]

Payment dispute details

Status: Open – no action needed

We've sent your rebuttal to the buyer's payment institution and they are currently reviewing it. We'll let you know when they've made a decision. If possible, your item will be returned to the address below.

[ruby*tuesday]

Think you are referring to a Bank Charge Back which we are all very aware of. Is not solely akin to Ebay. You can defend it by Proof of Delivery to the Buyers Address.

[the-nutwood-collection]

eBay doesn't accept any dialogue on the matter other than the tracking number.  This is then passed to the financial institution that raised the chargeback, and they decide whether to release the hold on the seller's funds or reimburse the customer.  If the latter, the seller is charged £14.

[vallybyone]

no this is Payment dispute for whatever reason from paypal or any financial institution  and you can't defend it

[sasdrivesuk]

So "payment dispute" as "unrecognised payment" or INR/SNAD ?

[sahewitt36]

I had a case where a buyer raised a chargeback with their bank (transaction not recognised) even though the item was fully tracked as delivered (through Packlink) and there was even an eBay message from the buyer confirming receipt (there had been a slight delay in delivery and I'd contacted them to make sure they had received it).

Even with all the evidence, the case was still found in favour of the buyer and I had to appeal with eBay CS who fortunately overturned (well they said eBay would foot the refund bill).

What I don't understand is, why would they do that? Clear confirmation of receipt directly from a buyer is surely enough to push back against a 'transaction not recognised' case!!

[elitegiftsltd]

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@sahewitt36 wrote:

I had a case where a buyer raised a chargeback with their bank (transaction not recognised) even though the item was fully tracked as delivered (through Packlink) and there was even an eBay message from the buyer confirming receipt (there had been a slight delay in delivery and I'd contacted them to make sure they had received it).

Even with all the evidence, the case was still found in favour of the buyer and I had to appeal with eBay CS who fortunately overturned (well they said eBay would foot the refund bill).

What I don't understand is, why would they do that? Clear confirmation of receipt directly from a buyer is surely enough to push back against a 'transaction not recognised' case!!

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Judge and jury is the bank. Protecting their customer against the big bad seller out to steal the customer's hard earned money.

They don't care, someone else is paying to keep the bank's customer happy. You, or ebay, it matters not.

Banks don't always decide in favour of their customer. Far from the only delivered item with tracking that has been raised over the years though. 

[rightgrand]

It worries me that our sole representative in defending whether OUR money gets given away is ebay.

I've had a chargeback via Paypal before.  My memory's vague, but I'm pretty sure I got the opportunity to make my case.

For an undelivered item it's hopefully straightforward.  But what if the buyer claims it was left in a bin or somewhere insecure?  What if the chargeback is for an alleged fault or misdescribed item?  I just wouldn't have any confidence in ebay's ability to put up a reasonable argument and, as it's not their money, they may be unlikely to bother too much about it.

[houseoftheyuccas]

This has happened to me twice this year--first in January a UK buyer said he hadn't authorised payment and made a claim through his bank--he was refunded by Paypal--the item was valued at £30 but was not sent tracked. The item was not returned to me. I think he would have been refunded anyway even if I had tracking!

Second in May a Chinese buyer who spent over £200 on 6 items made a claim throught Ebay that all items were not as described--I disputed this for 5 of the items and we agreed a partial refund for one. He didn't continue the dispute so the case was closed in my favour. Then a month later he made a claim through his bank that all the items were not as described--I had to provide evidence to Paypal--he won the case and received a full refund--even though he hadn't returned the items to me! They were sent back a few weeks later.

[plpmr]

"I've had a chargeback via Paypal before.  My memory's vague, but I'm pretty sure I got the opportunity to make my case."

A very big problem is that eBay handle all cases now [buyer pays eBay who pays the seller] and the biggest problem is if an unauthorised use case is opened eBay demand proof of delivery to the supplied address [PayPal asked for proof of postage] because such a case can be opened virtually immediately and before the item could have possibly been delivered.

Think of the implications.

[elitegiftsltd]

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@plpmr wrote:

"I've had a chargeback via Paypal before.  My memory's vague, but I'm pretty sure I got the opportunity to make my case."

A very big problem is that eBay handle all cases now [buyer pays eBay who pays the seller] and the biggest problem is if an unauthorised use case is opened eBay demand proof of delivery to the supplied address [PayPal asked for proof of postage] because such a case can be opened virtually immediately and before the item could have possibly been delivered.

Think of the implications.

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Paypal also asked for more than proof of postage. Not every claim is about receipt of item.

I've lost paypal claims more than once when the issue of delivery was not raised - item itself was the issue.

One had the item being not what the buyer wanted - he wanted a colour item we didn't stock (same item, different colour) - and he wanted a full refund including postage plus he wanted to keep the item.

He got what he wanted - after paypal ruled in his favour. 

Proof of delivery didn't come into the matter.

Overall I probably won more paypal claims than I lost - so far the one ebay MP claim I've had I've won. Was a stupid buyer on that occasion though.

[dynamic_perversity]

We recently received an international chargeback due to a complaint by the buyer to their financial institution (un-named) - "not received", a day after we sent it, which was the day of purchase, tracked.
This package would have taken at least 2 weeks to be delivered.
We couldn't prove delivery, so lost, the decision isn't eBay's, they are not interested. There doesn't appear to be any appeal system. Luckily this wasn't a large order.
Apparently, it is now effortless to challenge transactions made with debit/credit cards; years ago (UK), you had to write a letter quoting the specific legislation. 

[plpmr]

proof of postage or proof of delivery 

From PayPal T&C -

For Unauthorized Transaction claims, you must provide valid proof of shipment or proof

of delivery that demonstrates that the item was shipped or provided to the buyer no later

than two days after PayPal notified you of the dispute or reversal. For example, if PayPal

notifies you of an Unauthorized Transaction claim on September 1, the valid proof of

shipment must indicate that the item was shipped to the buyer no later than September 3

to be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection.

[plpmr · Accepted solution]

just as I said and warned about some time ago -

With eBay handling the unauthorised chargeback it's a scammers charter as claims can be made so early a seller cannot possibly win.

[bobandcharlies]

That is not the experiance we have had -  Why I say this is that we had a chargeback  within hours of the item being dispatched - with tracking -  we thought as you did - no way to win can't prove delivery so we accepted the chargeback -  after a few days ebay closed the chargeback under seller protection in our favour and the money was released back to us.

I querried this with ebay and they stated that even if you accept the chargeback if it is eligible under seller protection they will not take your money or make a charge - they went on and stated that accepted charge backs are automatically checked for seller protection 

Which seems to be why sahewitt had the chargeback reversed under appeal - granted it should not have got past the automated system or checking system but ebay gave full seller protection on appeal even though the bank had made the decision against the seller

This seems a really fair solution from ebay and hardly something to complain about.

Buyers bank takes sellers money - ebay refund seller from ebay funds - seems good to me

[elitegiftsltd]

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@bobandcharlies wrote:

That is not the experiance we have had -  Why I say this is that we had a chargeback  within hours of the item being dispatched - with tracking -  we thought as you did - no way to win can't prove delivery so we accepted the chargeback -  after a few days ebay closed the chargeback under seller protection in our favour and the money was released back to us.

t

sBuyers bank takes sellers money - ebay refund seller from ebay funds - seems good to me

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eBay figures out what it has to pay out and factors that into fees it charges all sellers.....

We pay for what eBay pay out. Same as we do for other businesses paying out. 

[bobandcharlies]

Of course any ebay paid refund must come from their revenue  stream which of course includes members fees but it is pleasant to know that ebay use some of this money not only to protect buyers but sellers as well.

Which sort of goes against the argument that ebay do not protect sellers - as in this post seller complaining that ebay is not safe anymore ?  When in reality if you conform to the requirements required to be eligible for seller protection the opposite becomes true.

Of course if you don't comply then this removes seller protection 

This is a sellers choice usually to save a few pennies on postage by not having tracking.

When things go wrong - sellers in this position appear to want to blame ebay rather than accept that they chose not to enter into the seller protection agreement and the consequences of not doing so.