EBAY SUPPORT FOR SELLERS? NOT IN MY CASE

[john435fish]

I recently sold an item and about 5 days after posting 2nd Class Post the buyer opened a 'not received case'.

No enquiry to me , direct thro' ebay ...which I think is bad manners and not how I tend to work.

I immediately wrote to him explaining that delays do occur with Royal Mail especially at holiday periods/bank holiday times and asked if he could update me in 3 days time and if it still  hadn't  arrived I'd send out a replacement item by 1st Class Post.   Fair?   I think so.

No update came through from buyer, indeed no response at all despite 3 attempts by me. Total silence.

I then decided to ask ebay to intervene , i.e. see if they can get a response for me.

What did ebay support do?

They refunded in full and put a 'case closed without seller resolution' mark against me.

So .... now the buyer has a full refund .... and probably the goods as well.

Before anyone says I should have paid for a tracked service, ebay is run on trust and with ebay fees and Royal Mail costs there is no margin room for a tracking service.

I feel very let down by ebay who should have to my mind asked the buyer to respond to my 'has it arrived yet?' note before crediting.

Seems to me that any one who wants free goods on ebay just has to open a dispute and then clam up.

Bingo!  Product and money back.

Little wonder there is so much seller dissatisfaction with ebay out there.

[papso22]

Ebay is not run on trust, it's a good idea to get that out of your head right away.

Your buyer simply used the money back guarantee to get a refund.

You had no seller protection because you didn't have tracking proving delivery, which is the only evidence eBay accepts.

[douglaspuglas]

It's too late now but the general advice on these boards is never ask eBay to intervene in a case like yours because CS's will just refund the buyer.

[4_bathrooms]

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@john435fish wrote:

I then decided to ask ebay to intervene , i.e. see if they can get a response for me.

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Whenever a buyer opens an "Item Not Received" or an "Item Not As Described" case you are dealing with an automated process that is weighted heavily in favour of the buyer.

A buyer can only open an INR  case the day after the latest estimated delivery date they were given by eBay. Once such a case has been opened the seller has three days to either upload tracking to the case or refund the buyer. If the seller has done neither by the end of the third day the buyer can escalate the case and automatically receive a full refund with no requirement to return anything that has or may turn up. The same happens if the seller escalates the case and has not uploaded tracking. 

Sellers should never click the "Ask us to step in" link. 

[goingfishinguk]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

Sellers should never click the "Ask us to step in" link. 

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What about in the instances when the INR case was opened with the tracking already shown as delivered (a big bug bear of mine - and I still can never get a solid answer if this goes against the seller on their metrics.)  Why are they allowed to even open cases once tracking states delivered if eBay's only evidence is the tracking?

OR when a seller has uploaded the tracking mid case which shows delivery?  What is the advice here, just to let the 20 odd days of no activity go by?

In either case it seems the seller can be punished for doing nothing wrong either with a strike or having to wait ages for funds to be released. 😞 

[petstation1989]

If you ask ebay to step in on a case where there's no tracking showing it's delivered they will just refund the buyer.
There's no human behind the scenes making these decisions it's all automated.

[petstation1989]

Also have a look at parcel2go for cheap rates with tracking you can send a parcel with yodel for £2.63 (£2.19 ex vat) though them and you'd be able to add tracking to cases. 
They aren't great but lets be honest the royal mail have been on a downwards spiral for years that's not stopping. I only use them for letter and large letters now.

[4_bathrooms]

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@goingfishinguk wrote:

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

Sellers should never click the "Ask us to step in" link. 

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What about in the instances when the INR case was opened with the tracking already shown as delivered (a big bug bear of mine - and I still can never get a solid answer if this goes against the seller on their metrics.)  Why are they allowed to even open cases once tracking states delivered if eBay's only evidence is the tracking?

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The evidence needs to be uploaded to the case; I have no idea why eBay doesn't just use the existing tracking if it was uploaded to the order. Service Metrics are counted against cases opened; it doesn't matter whether they were opened abusively or not. I think that shows Service Metrics are just another stick eBay uses to beat it's sellers with. From memory, if tracking is added to the case and it shows delivery or attempted delivery before the third day after the case was opened the case is automatically closed on the third day.

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@goingfishinguk wrote:

OR when a seller has uploaded the tracking mid case which shows delivery?  What is the advice here, just to let the 20 odd days of no activity go by?

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If it's past the 3 days where the case automatically closes I politely ask the buyer to close the case. If they don't respond and the case doesn't automatically close then yes, I wait as I know there's no risk of eBay messing up and refunding the buyer anyway.

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@goingfishinguk wrote:

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In either case it seems the seller can be punished for doing nothing wrong either with a strike or having to wait ages for funds to be released. 😞 

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It's all sticks and no carrots for sellers.
 

[john435fish]

Thanks for that … appreciate it.
Royal Mail are not what they were that’s true but the level of scammers now who use eBay policy to their own advantage has rocketed . Tracked and signed for helps certainly but I’ve still had people who say ‘it may have been signed for but not by me’
Ho hum … I’m going fishing!

Sent from my iPhone

[goingfishinguk]

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@john435fish wrote:
Ho hum … I’m going fishing!

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Want a discount on your gear? Haha 😉 

[santlache_sales]

I agree some items just don't warrant sending via a tracked method.....

But don't be surprised at this.

eBay's flagship policy, 'Your item or your money back, guaranteed' is wide open to fraud.

eBay know full well it is but they won't do anything about it and still enable it.

Sadly there are many crooks out there and they know if an item isn't sent tracked, wait a few days after it arrives and file a complaint with eBay saying it hasn't arrived, and they know full well eBay will side with them every time and refund them in full.

Result = they get the item for free, but the seller is a sale down and postage.

[john435fish]

Precisely
Even signed for these days isnt 100%.
I had a guy say ‘it may well have signed for but not by me … money back’
The bots at eBay obliged.


Sent from my iPhone

[sheba-knows-best]

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@santlache_sales wrote:

I agree some items just don't warrant sending via a tracked method.....

But don't be surprised at this.

eBay's flagship policy, 'Your item or your money back, guaranteed' is wide open to fraud.

eBay know full well it is but they won't do anything about it and still enable it.

Sadly there are many crooks out there and they know if an item isn't sent tracked, wait a few days after it arrives and file a complaint with eBay saying it hasn't arrived, and they know full well eBay will side with them every time and refund them in full.

Result = they get the item for free, but the seller is a sale down and postage.

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This is why it is important to report a buyer every time this happens.

I have had several buyers over the years get really 'off' with me because they wanted to return but didn't want to use the return system - they just wanted me to hand out an address and cancel. One was a photography studio and they wanted to return a rather remarkable cowboy jacket and cowboy boots. Which made me realise... aha, I bet ebay had blocked them from returning due to an overuse of returns.

I think it is the same with INR. A buyer can only claim it so many times before ebay will stop them opening INRs - as long as they are reported. It is no use it just showing up in fb - bots dont read fb. Sllers need to report, report, report.

[purveyor_of_tat]

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@santlache_sales wrote:

...eBay's flagship policy, 'Your item or your money back, guaranteed' is wide open to fraud....

Buyers wouldn't use eBay without the MBG. 

The OP posted about this current issue but didn't mention the percentage of cases they've had this year, last year, going back to their first sale etc. Without context, we don't know if it's an isolated incident. 

Some sellers in certain categories will suffer more than other from abuse of the MBG.  

[wavesales]

Hi john435fish,

Yes it has started happening to me I sell assorted drive belts and a buyer opened a case again with no contact to me stating"item not as described" on 30 x drive belts, just because the smaller size was 5mm out he opened this case, what he did not say is that I supplied him an extra 10 belts for free as I purchase the belts in bulk I was 5mm out on the smaller size I had to refund, these are assorted belts. Why not contact me first I would of sent the smaller belt free of charge but no lets take the seller for the total price!. He stated I was strong in my email and I stated you would be if you are complaining about one belt and the zero contact from him, again 350 lots sold without any issues  so £8 lost to a potential  scammer.

eBay take the buyers side no matter what!, Sellers have no say in anything, here is a clear example, I purchased a commercial battery charger off ebay and I did not check it as have been busy, when I checked it out it was found to be faulty, I contacted ebay and the stated I cannot claim as it is outside the time frame.

It should not make any difference as its a seller selling a faulty item. eBay could not help me so I had to claim off paypal the first time I have done it in 20 years! I won the case.

What is happening on eBay right now is they are protecting buyers but what about the sellers as no sellers = NO BUYERS!

Ebay support for sellers that is impossible!

[*knight-rider*]

`ebay is run on trust`

Ebay might like it that way, but in the real world your dealing with buyers and their money, not ebay and when it comes to money, i trust nobody. Every single item i sell goes by recorded delivery or other tracked service, because where recorded is concerned, i`d rather lose £1 than have to refund £20 or even a tenner, because of any bogus not received claim. i appreciate margins are tight, but their even tighter if you keep refunding money!

i notice a couple of the items your selling, you`ve actually sold in the hundreds, so if you not happy to charge extra for recorded delivery, could you add say 50p to each item, which then tot up and cover any loss to not received claims? Just an idea and i guess you have to weigh everything up, do you get enough claims each year to warrent it, or is it just easier to swallow one claim or two each year, i don`t know how many you`ve had so far 🙂

[nigel_paul_wright7557]

A sale on ebay is covered by UK distance selling laws.

This gives the buyer a lot of rights.

[john435fish]

Agreed ... the one thing I have learnt during this episode is that ebay is run by bots so don't ask for help as you won't get it ........as a seller.

Still one day like British Home Stores, Habitat, Woolworths, Wilko .............. every brand has a shelflife unless they actuallly listen to their customer base.  No sellers .... No ebay.

[john435fish]

Agreed and rightly so but this should only apply to people who actually
don't receive the product they paid for.

Get my drift?

My answer is to reduce my business with ebay.

  I'm lucky that I can and will continue to do so as my prices on my
own web site are already considerably cheaper than ebay and have been
for a considerable time.

Good luck and good health.

John C

[Anonymous]

Exactly my problem too John! I've had the same experience, EBay credited the buyer before I could respond to the dispute. I was trying repeatedly for days trying to tell Ebay that I had proof of tracking and the item had been delivered on a certain date? By the time I had an answer the buyer had not only been credited but received an expensive quality item! Can I get hold of him now? No! 
Ebay are now going to take yet more money from my account which I can I'll afford as I'm on a straight pension with little in the way of savings whilst this wonderfully smug buyer is laughing all the way to the bank as he's probably gaining even more now by marketing my item.