he Iron Lady - Maggie

[welsh.goddess]

is deceased

[spawnjohnuk]

Still hold spite after 25 yrs says more about the gov today, yesterday and the day before that imo...forget and the wheel trundles on,remember and make sure your children and their children never have to go through it ?

Never forget is the stuff of change.

[start-the-fire]

Oh i remember alright i lost my job in 88, so started my own business, yes time can be tough, but rewarding  as well, the future and the path you follow can be very much in your`own hands.

No you don't forget but to hold grudges for so long is frankly pitiful.

[kiss*my*pixel]

Sorry to hear. I’m sure there are many similar stories.  Just wondering, as I don’t live in South Wales, is the general view from local steelworkers and guys from around the pits nowadays that the Unions in the 80s were the Spawn of Satan and Thatcher’s policies were not particularly relevant? Because I’m not sure these guys would quite share that narrative:

http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?14,51427,page=1

Post from that thread "Paul-Neath, just back from the pub"  Posted at around 4.30pm - that says a lot, doesn't it?

In answer to your question, Book I can honestly say I don't know, as I don't live there any more. Once we lost our home we moved to another country. Now I'm back in the UK, but not in S Wales. I visit from time to time, and things tere have picked up in general. I would be very interested to hear what people think now. In the days of those strikes I worked for the DHSS and can remember big, grown men at the door in tears begging for help. They may now remember that differently. Who knows?

[spawnjohnuk]

Then write to IDS as he seems as pitiful as it gets these days.

I think you'll find her passing has brought back bad memories (unforgettable) to some, I can't find anywhere people on the rampage 1,2,10,15 yrs ago etc saying Thatcher did this ?

You were alright then via thatcher era as you made a new start...again that 'its in your own hands comes up'...if only that were 100% true ,world would be a place of self made millionaires with money being worthless and utopia at hand 🙂

[spawnjohnuk]

sorry pixel , obviously not post to you...Must rem to put thread number in lol

[Anonymous]

whats the difference between not forgetting and holding a grudge?  i can remember thatcher at her acidine best, is that a grudge or a memory?

[spawnjohnuk]

its a memory grudge pete,unless you forget  😛

[kiss*my*pixel]

sorry pixel , obviously not post to you...Must rem to put thread number in lol

I know, Spawny - posts get crossed 🙂

[start-the-fire]

You were alright then via thatcher era as you made a new start...again that 'its in your own hands comes up'...if only that were 100% true ,world would be a place of self made millionaires with money being worthless and utopia at hand  

Yes maybe there are different opportunities depending where you live, but you still have alot more influence on your own path, than any government could possibly have.

[nana_jan]

I don't care that MT is dead............I didn't care when she was alive.

What I care about are the millions of pounds being spent on her funeral.

Who's paying for all this? Her family: Her life insurance company?

Not bloody likely!

I thought we were in a recession? How can we afford this expense?

[kiss*my*pixel]

Her family are contributing a certain amount, actually.

Don't know how much though

How much have the wayward bankers cost us in bail-outs, how much does Tony Blair's security cost us? Etc, etc, ad nauseum

[spawnjohnuk]

not completely true again start the fire (thats a heavy metal track by metal church by the way..good too)

Governments create climate that makes money spendable or not,they also ( moreso since thatcher) create industries to suit there beneficiaries (lawyers in bliars case/ health care with this lot) those in careers being taken from to pass to the other (money is pretty much the same amount yr in yr out) will undoubtedly get hit with losses ..this cannot always be a jump ship case as jobs are already gone.

I do agree with free enterprise however and yes there are ways to help yourself ,one being a forget the past and plod on looking to improve..this causes lots of humans though to have serious mental problems as the brain isnt designed for go go go do not fail.

Well done though in starting anew and I hope your business is thriving and you employ people.

[upthecreekyetagain]

This discussion gives the impression that the industrial disputes all began during the MT era.  The reality is totally different.  As anyone who worked during the 1970s will remember hardly a day went by without news of another industrial dispute.  Disputes that not only had an affect on the business the workers were in dispute with but also on those dependent on their services.

MT was elected on a manifesto that spelled out clearly that if elected the government would stop subsidising failing industries, curtail the powers of the unions, end closed shops, only allow picketing by workers at their own place of work and the introduction of secret ballots.

The manifesto laid out the plans for privatisation, for the deregulation of businesses and the sale of council housing.

The 1979 manifesto makes for interesting reading and one thing you can't accuse MT of is failing to carry out the policies she had committed to.

The plan to introduce the Poll Tax, (community charge), was clearly laid out in the 1987 manifesto - "We will legislate in the first Session of the new Parliament to abolish the unfair domestic rating system and replace rates with a fairer Community Charge."

We are a very fickle lot, quick to complain when politicians fail to keep their "promises" and even quicker to complain when they do.

[Anonymous]

hi # 209, i wonder as well?

[spawnjohnuk]

To pixel 🙂 

Family should be paying it all or receive private donations towards, not some of it .

[spawnjohnuk]

creeky..did it mention arms deals ? tobacco industry ? british telecom ?  Again not everything she said she'd do did she do. That's probably what some are missing when debating her...its what she didnt tell you shed do that was the prob....nowt fickle about that.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Here are links to the manifestos Spawn

1979 - http://www.conservative-party.net/manifestos/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml

1983 - http://www.conservative-party.net/manifestos/1983/1983-conservative-manifesto.shtml

1987 - http://www.conservative-party.net/manifestos/1987/1987-conservative-manifesto.shtml

[salfordmarinade]

I see some busy fingers have been at play again;-)...I wonder who 😉

There were many many families where they not only  lost their jobs, but lost their homes, car, even marriages because certain areas were so dependent on either coal, steel or other manufacturing, there was little else. Most of the smaller firms in that area also depended upon those industries for their living too. Just because they weren't yours or my families, doesn't mean to say they were any less real.

Emotive tales are many and stretch beyond immediate family. I recall one whose task as part of management was to facilitate closure. As he said he never felt intimidated, bullied or threatened during this time. Usually it was a case of driving into the work gates to meet a solemn row of faces, lining each side of the entrance, some children. Most already feared what you were about to tell them. There was no crowding, no shouts in fact according to his account it was mostly silence.
There were very few other jobs locally, and once the purchasing power of what must now be called 'spongers' went down after they had lost their jobs, many other unrelated firms simply didn't survive  either. A few firms had made an 'enhanced' living whilst the times were better. One area was called BMW row...not it's real name, but one it had locally, for less than scrupulous employers out for as much as they could get.

I am sure there have been cases of demarcation which are usually trotted out to demonstrate 'ancient' restrictive working practices,which were part of that era's downfall according to some;  funny though as I still see them but they are enforced by employers not unions to generate more revenue, but I seldom hear these mentioned. Two or even three call out charges from different trades or professions usually help pay for that oft needed villa, or 6th car to add to a collection. Some companies take full  advantage of legislation to line their own company profits which of course is entirely different naturally.

Most proprietors that fit this profile that I have spoken too are quite unabashed about their natural right to get as much as they can out of consumers and the system, and sometimes a great deal more, simply by exploitation. Strange but had they called themselves a union some might have been more critical,but as a company of course, this is just good commerce.So no double standards there.

A slight aside but it brings to mind two more recent instances; a second opinion was needed on a particular document a while ago and a very notable firm of notaries was used. Cost about 3.5k. Worth? well they had dotted two i's and added punctuation but the reviewed draft contained no other amendments.
Vet bill ( yes others do get them ) for one pooch on a weekend stay, over 4k. That included no special treatment or surgery just some AB  and a vet nurse looking in, likely on min wages from what I understand. Are they all like this?..of course not, neither were all unions but despite prefaces by some, they go on to suggest they were and it's all lumped one way to suit a political agenda. The realities are and were, a bit more complex. What Thatcher did was to encourage such simplification by  presenting a simple world with simple solutions however meaningless or incorrect. Sound bite politics easily digestible requiring little thought, and often not much more than drivel.
The 70's wasn't the easiest period for most of the worlds economies with large sudden increases in oil prices, pay freezes ( agreed with unions in many cases ), some of which came under strain towards the late seventies.

I wonder if Mark will take time off from reading F. Forsyth novels on how to stage coups and plunder some minor countries wealth to be there on time?Hopefully someone else will drive the poor lamb, as I doubt even with sat nav he would manage.
Nothing like a bit of nepotism and family sponging

[bankhaunter]

As anyone who worked during the 1970s will remember hardly a day went by without news of another industrial dispute.

And in the 60s, we had 20 years of successive governments both Labour and Tory struggling to deal with the unions culminating with the 'Winter of discontent', not helped of course by inflation.

I remember working with the factory windows being covered in black polythene in order that the surrounding neighbourhood would not know that unlike them, we had power.

[kiss*my*pixel]

In that case, Spawny, all Royal Weddings and any Royal state occasion should be paid for by the Royal Family, from their own personal coffers? Can't see that happening.

All other policital occasions that some of us disagree with should not be funded by the British Public??

Whatever one thinks of her politics and polices (I certainly didn't agree with many of them) she did do good things for this country. She had more cahonies than most of the Prime Ministers we have ever had and she did believe in serving this country well. She was a formidable character, and put GB back on the world political map.

She served for 11 years or so - democratically voted for by the British Public. (The fact that she was eventually ousted by her own Party members is another matter).