he Iron Lady - Maggie

[welsh.goddess]

is deceased

[upthecreekyetagain]

I've already answered that as well :-x

[kiss*my*pixel]

When you explain who your bullying thread was about and when you explain why you assumed my post related to you

I don't give freebies, if you wish to sponge, please do it elsewhere

What on earth are you talking about now? I am completely bewildered by some of your posts, honestly.

I would just like to have an answer to my question. Why is that so difficult?

It's all well and good spouting about things, but you have to be able to back up your spoutings, surely???

[kiss*my*pixel]

"Will you be saying who your bullying thread was about?"

No, I won't.

Why would you be so interested, especially as I haven't spotted a post from you?

How interesting . . .

[5129frederick]

Mssrs. Pixel & Salford - what on earth is going on between you pair?  This is meant to be a thread about Margaret Thatcher, but you've both lost me.  Even reading threads on the previous page doesn't help.  Who is meant to be bullying whom??:|  Let's try to stay on topic

[kiss*my*pixel]

You are quite right, Frederick. If you care to read previous posts, you will see where things went wrong.

I'm personally quite happy to keep to the thread. 🙂

[kiss*my*pixel]

Sigh  - I rest my case

Goodnight everyone

[upthecreekyetagain]

Night, night Pixel

[salfordmarinade]

I suggest you broadly stick to the thread discussion kissmy, and at the time stick to what you are good at, whatever that is, because it's clear what it isn't.;-)

[spawnjohnuk]

great reading about the war veterans passing tommy 158. That is the kind of thing that this countries people should talk about spending money on,well played the care home manager ,he has his heart and priorities in the right place.

I hope there is no trouble at MT funeral but if there is a demonstration against a costly send off of someone who did nothing for all as veterans did ,then I hope it's peaceful and I hope the message of why it's disagreed to gets through to some of the MP's heads ,then perhaps that will spread round the commons and become the norm ... spending tax on what is not a choice of a few but the delegation of many.

Tony Blair will already be planning his send off at your cost as he believes he is a legacy also the 2 term office ending in change hands defeat , the immense wealth for his and his wifes working colleagues he used PM job for and of course a war .

My, there are so many similarities between Maggie and Tone I must be stuck in a time warp ...or a game of deception 🙂

[spawnjohnuk]

ps she was a great PM of the MP's arlight and that is why she is getting a lavish bash and all MP's are cashing in ,day off ,paid to be there bash even though she herself wanted no such thing .

I have written to local councillor asking for my neighbourhoods days wage to be covered and our expenses paid to attend also.No reply yet.

[al**bear]

 even though she herself wanted no such thing .

It has now been mentioned that

She planned the whole thing, in meetings about 7 years ago, including St Pauls etc

the only things She didn't want was lying in State and procession after service, She wanted Family send off only.

[spawnjohnuk]

Well that's the point,I think it's ok to plan your funeral that seems normal,she didn't want a parade that was my point. A family and friends send off she asked for so why go against her will at skint cutback riddled countries expense.

No one should have expense to be there paid now should they. On top of the obvious the people taking another dip in the tax pot,can actually afford their own way.Poor people have to go into debt with loans sometimes when an out of the blue family /friend member dies ..in maggies case saving for the day as she had a reasonable innings ,so no need for 1p spent out of pot.

My opinion is the tories love nothing more than having police wielding batons day on head of oppositions,so it's an excuse again to cause bad feeling,not a very nice way to send someone off who is respected by a lot of people . 

[bookhunter2007]

And this is where I agree with Welsh Goddess's excellent post. The Unions have done an enormous amount of good in the past - they were absolutely necessary when the workforce was bullied and downtrodden. However, they then became the bullies. Growing up in S Wales, my Dad was a Steelworker. People were forced into joining the Unions, they had little choice, it was compulsory.

At that time of the strikes, he knew he couldn't afford to take part, but had to. The steelworkers were on strike for months (as were the miners). The mortgage and hire purchase companies had little sympathy, our car was repossessed and we ended up having to sell our house at way below the market value because he couldn't keep up the mortgage payments. I can remember my Dad watching his car being driven away, trying to contain his sobs. That memory will never leave me, and that was just the start of it. This was the power of the Unions, doing this. You couldn't break the strike, no matter what your financial situation. Our family were not the only ones, people committed suicide over similar situations. And yes, as someone also said above, blocks of stone were thrown from motorway bridges by militant striking miners. It was a horrible, horrible time. But I still am of the opinion that the Unions were holding the entire country to ransom and they were to blame for a lot of the bloodshed and heartache of that time. I actually belonged to the Socialist Worker's Party at the time, and was on our Union Committee. I changed my mind!!

Sorry to hear. I’m sure there are many similar stories.  Just wondering, as I don’t live in South Wales, is the general view from local steelworkers and guys from around the pits nowadays that the Unions in the 80s were the Spawn of Satan and Thatcher’s policies were not particularly relevant? Because I’m not sure these guys would quite share that narrative:

http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?14,51427,page=1

I agree with you on how militant some unions became. I guess niceties went a bit out the window with leftie infighting and lacking leadership, compounded by the fact that many communities were facing entire economic devastation. All whilst Thatcher and some Union Leaders were deciding to use sledgehammers to crack walnuts in some instances.  But I think it’s a bit more complex than simply reducing the “blame” to focus solely down to “the unions” or other “Trots” – as some people and outlets seem to be doing. Desperate people do desperate in things in desperate situations, and sections of the police in the 80s resembled something like a rogue paramilitary wing of the Conservative Party.

The end game was always going to be the same; it was only a case of timescale - it was inevitable the coal and steel industries were going to end up on the scrapheap – especially when competing with other countries that were still subsidising primary industries. Whether Unions were around or not, the very areas affected were always destined to become Ghost Towns or approaching third world sweatshops – especially with Thatcher’s appointment of Ian Macgregor (red rag to a bully). The miners had seen what he did to steel and knew the same would happen to coal.  It wasn’t the unions who ordered the closures or cut subsidies. It was all or nothing. And as I previously mentioned, the absence of any regeneration funding or subsidies via the North Sea oil boom to cushion closures is the vindictive “bullying” part imo.  But maybe not quite as bad as Thatcher’s defence of a scumbag who had a policy of *disappearing" tens and thousands of people and throwing pregnant women out of planes

The sad and troubling thing is, Thatcher’s unpopularity spiked publicly and "within" during the Brixton riots in 81 and the poll tax riots in 90 - if the striking miners and steelworkers had rioted en-masse in London instead of withdrawing their labour at great hardship to themselves and families, they’d probably have brought down Thatcher much sooner.

Think this is a very fitting tribute to Thatcherism in more ways than one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDcoJN9fnVI

[spawnjohnuk]

as always books,a million times better at this''explaining things'  than I am 🙂

[ilove2patch]

I had forgotten that speech. Thank you for posting the link.:-)

[upthecreekyetagain]

 Whilst I agree with a lot of what Book has posted regarding MT and the unions none of it addresses the simple fact that had the unions behaved responsibly during the 1970s it is highly unlikely that MT would have been elected on the mandate she was.

http://www.conservative-party.net/manifestos/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml

[papko]

The sad and troubling thing is, Thatcher’s unpopularity spiked publicly and "within" during the Brixton riots in 81 and the poll tax riots in 90 - if the striking miners and steelworkers had rioted en-masse in London instead of withdrawing their labour at great hardship to themselves and families, they’d probably have brought down Thatcher much sooner.

Think this is a very fitting tribute to Thatcherism in more ways than one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDcoJN9fnVI

Brixton riots ?  how many thousands rioted ?

Poll Tax riots ? agreed it was a vary unpopular tax , the MP's were not going to get re-elected on the back of it , so they had to reform it , in some ways , and the country had lost their appettite for "great reforms "

I am quite sad at Maggies death , like everyone she had her good and bad , and because she was larger than life , her mistakes were greater .

But she was a great leader , a war leader , and a good many innocents were caught up in the trouble .

Britain had to change , and she was the one thta changed it .

 Those thta clebrate her death , do not really annoy me , its a free country after all . I would be more impressed , if those young folk satrted theor own businesses or worker cooperatives ? and started digging coal again , call it Fair Trade coal ?

 see how many put their backs where their mouth is , or rather theri facebook "likes " and "tweets " .

[spawnjohnuk]

It doesnt take away the real legacy of her time in parliament of bringing a 'do whatever suits you so long as it sticks money in your own coffers politics' regardless of why she got there.

Yes unions were at fault and being (some) just as selfish,but had she had more plans to redevelop the industries she wanted rid of rather than stuff them attitude,she would have been a great PM and that was the hope when elected,a woman is a more caring for all image...well talk about backfire. 

[start-the-fire]

Wonders how many people got on the house market as a result of thatchers policies, and as a result probably a lot more families are better off than they would have been.

Thought Brixton riots were more about racial tensions and the police than hatchers policies.

Coal mines were already in decline, the end would not have been as quick if it was not for the strikes. would you buy into what was already subsidized loss making industry- the reason why very few became privatized. Nice for the steel industry to buy so much imported coal.

I'm from a coal mining area, it took the miners 2 hours to get to the coal face, some did little work when they got there and slept on the coolers, before doing some work before there 2 hr trip back, now obviously this is not indicative of most miners, but there is little question that the prime industries were no longer competitive, complacent, and expected a wage for doing little.

In my mind there is little doubt that the unions were placing a strangle hold on Britain themselves causing a lot of problems within industry, and were i believe out of control.Scargill is to blame as much as Thatcher for the strikes, and there longevity

It is to easy to blame the government of the day for their woes, and to still hold all that spite after 25years says more about them than the government policies of that day. 

[spawnjohnuk]

to papko..I saw you say once'' I put my sales at 99p to avoid fees but if sell to low I do not go through with the sale'' You seemed quite proud of your tactics too. Yes you would be sad as everyone is here for your gain attitude will ring bells in the Thatcher camp 🙂

I remember like yesterday the poll tax riots.