What would make you change your mind

[upthecreekyetagain]

Following on from CD's thread what would make you change your mind about the way you currently intend to vote in the forthcoming referendum - or if, like me, you're on the fence would make you decide one way or the other.

For me I'd definitely vote out if it entailed monetary union - I'd definitely vote in if the EU accepted real democracy by having a two house setup similar to the US Congress and Senate with elected representatives capable of introducing new law.

[dark_castle1]

what gets me evo is, Nicola Sturgeon and SNP shout about Scotland being independent because they do not want to be governed by a government in England, yet they are quite willing to have a referendum for independence if South of the border vote out of the EU. Why do they want independence then ! to let basically another goverment not even in this country tell them what to do and when to do it !

In my opinion SNP and Nicola Sturgeon are just hypocrites and only want to be known as the ones that made Scotland independent from the rest of the UK but dependent on Europe.

I am born and bred in Scotland and I can assure you I shall be voting OUT and once again SNP and Nicola Sturgeon who wanted democracy will disregard the referendum they already had for Independence where voters voted to stay in the UK and go for another referendum to try again, where then is the democracy they shouted about then when they disregard voters until SNP get what they want.

[evoman3957]

Well, if we vote to come out of the EU and Scotland have another referendum on independence.......and win; all I know is it's going to open up a can of worms.  We can't possibly have our naval ships being built or stationed in a foreign country and that's what Scotland will become. So Faslane will have to shut and our fleet of Subs, brought south to be stationed somewhere in England, Wales or Northern Ireland ( although I doubt it will be in the latter ). A border with Scotland will have to be introduced, to stop immigrants / migrants / asylum seekers; entering Scotland through the EU's free movement policy and then crossing into England unchecked. They will have to operate as a completely separate country, raising their own revenue, imposing their own taxes and making their own laws. They'll have to have their own currency ( probably the Euro ) because they'll have to negotiate their own entry into the EU and the EU will probably tell them, that new countries entering; must adopt the Euro...........and with what's happening to the price of oil at the moment.......I can see Scotland going bankrupt within 2 years, if not sooner.  If that happens and they turn to US for sympathy ( after what they would have done ) I can see the reception being frosty, to say the least.  Talk about a leap into the Dark, I think the Scots need to have a serious think about voting differently to the rest of the UK.  This is 2016 and Nicola Sturgeon is no William Wallace, shouting " Freedom " as she's being hung, drawn & quartered.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I hear a lot about a lack of sovereignty but when I sit down and think of it I have difficulty thinking of a single law that has been imposed on the UK that directly affects the way I live.

I wish that politicians would be more specific about this subject and and let me decide the importance or otherwise of the specific laws - at least then I could make an informed decision.

For instance the laws regarding EU freedom of movement have I'm told been imposed on us yet when push came to shove our politicians didn't even take advantage of the opt out regarding delaying new members immediate access to the UK to work.  So how can we claim the EU imposed that law.  In any case I can't think of how that law has affected me directly.

What other laws that we wouldn't have passed in any case have been imposed on us - I'm sure there must be many considering how often the lack of sovereignty is mentioned but what are they?

[evoman3957]

I think the expression " lack of sovereignty " is being used more to describe our sovereign right to make ALL our own laws; as opposed to an actual loss of sovereignty per se.  It's a niggling erosion of a way of life, perhaps each one not too much in its own right; but added together reaches saturation point.........enough's enough so to speak. From telling us we can't call a pork pie a pork pie, unless it meats THEIR criteria and Bananas have to be like this or like that etc. etc. It just makes you think, that if they can spend millions of pounds creating departments full of bureaucrats; spending every day of their working lives coming out with **** like this, then not only are they pathetic......but we really don't need them.

[upthecreekyetagain]

What of the laws though that aren't just niggling ones - those that have resulted in a change to consumer rights for instance.

There you are I've just thought of a law that was 'imposed' on us after saying I couldn't think of one

Seriously though that's the sort of example I'd like to see rather than claims over the shape of bananas - not sure of your reference to pork pies other than the pan-European protection over the use of the name Melton Mowbray pork pie.  Neither are matters that make me lose sleep.

I'm sure I'll be just as confused come the 23rd June.  It really doesn't matter on a personal basis which way the vote goes - it's not what happens in the next 20 years, more what will be the result in 50 years.  Considering the changes that have taken place in the world over the last 50 years it's almost impossible to foresee what will happen in the next 50 years no matter the result of the vote.

[joe_bloggs*]

Here is an interesting document written by Jean-Claude Piris former Director General of EU Legal Services,it appears we are not getting the full facts on any possible trade deals and how they are to be achieved

http://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/doc/questions-d-europe/qe-355-en.pdf

[suzieseaside]

To make up my mind in the first place I will want to know more about the likely effects of IN vs OUT on trade, the economy, jobs, national security etc.   But I imagine that there is no obvious or predictable answer to some questions and leaving the EU will be a leap in the dark.

I think that unless some aspects become clearer in the next 4 months, a lot of people will be voting on gut instinct or perhaps just beaue they want to see a change, which is a bit scary for such an important decision.

What about National Security issues, for example?  In the fight against terrorists will UK security forces still be able to liase with European ones for information about suspected terrorists?

I reckon that quite a lot of people are planning to vote OUT because they are worried about the migrant crisis. That might backfire.  Who is to say it will be better if we control our borders?  Why would the French try to stop migrants boarding vehicles bound for UK if we are out of the EU; would they even allow our security forces to police the Calais side?  It seems to me we might just end up with huge camps like the Jungle in Dover and Folkestone, for the percentage of stowaways that are caught coming in (and many will get through), instead of in Calais. Who knows what the extra cost and pressure on resources will be to the UK if that happens?

I doubt that I will make up my mind which way to vote until much closer to the referendum date.

[lucybelle2006]

I would vote out if the EU decided to deprive us of our human rights by telling us to sacrifice them so that bad people can't have them

[joe_bloggs*]

The Ukip reworking of Three Lions had me and Frank Skinner laughing like drains

David Baddiel

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/24/the-ukip-reworking-of-three-lions-had-me-and-fr...

That is the second verse of Ukip parliamentary candidate Mandy Boylett’s reworking of Three Lions into an anthem of support for the campaign to leave the EU, available on YouTube, as of yesterday morning. Obviously, it’s brilliant just on the page, but really, as with all the best lyricists – Dylan, Lennon, Batt – you have to hear these words sung. To appreciate the power of Boylett’s poetic summation of the pain of so many years under the cosh of EU marine regulation, you have to hear the way she twists “fish” into “fi-ii-yy-ish”, mimicking, as she does so, the twisting of so many British cod into French and Dutch nets"

Could do well in the Eurovision song contest...

[evoman3957]

I wonder which way most of our MEP's will be voting, doubt if they'll vote to derail their "Gravy Train "...........though Nige & his Boys and Girls will have to find something to do to fill up their time.......if we come out.

[0125arwen]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

I wonder which way most of our MEP's will be voting, doubt if they'll vote to derail their "Gravy Train "...........though Nige & his Boys and Girls will have to find something to do to fill up their time.......if we come out.

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Hopefully carry on and gain more votes.

[suzieseaside]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

I wonder which way most of our MEP's will be voting, doubt if they'll vote to derail their "Gravy Train "...........though Nige & his Boys and Girls will have to find something to do to fill up their time.......if we come out.

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Farage and his crew won't need to find much, UKIP MEPS had the poorest record of attendance for voting out of any of the 28 countries.

Farage only turned up for 1 out of 42 meeting about fisheries policy and he voted against any efforts to curb the illegal ivory trade.

It seems that he just votes against anything that might give the EU more legislative powers, just because he is anti-EU, irrespective of British interests on some issues.  I find that shameful and childish.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/ukip-fish-and-ivory-voting-record.html