What's your answer to this?

[cee-dee]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/calais-migrants-face-catastrophe-153936990.html#3RP7sMo

The situation can't go on?

Not only can the stowaway situation there not continue, the constant flow of people trying to get to Europe and/or Britain cannot continue either.

Those people should be told that there's nothing for them except a life in a refugee camp. They can't become a "normal" member of society in their target country because they can't speak the language and those that get here (legally or illegally) don't seem to want to bother to learn either. They can't do anything useful except work that's already over subscribed so their only work is going to be an exploited modern form of slavery.

They're looking for a short-cut to a way of life that's taken a couple of thousand years to achieve and they're many centuries behind.

It's high time they were "educated" about the facts of illegal immigration and shown what has happened to many who went before them and all efforts should be made to dissuade and/or prevent them starting out in the first place rather than dealing with them en route or at their destination.

[malacandran]

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@bookhunter2007 wrote:

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@malacandran wrote:

It seems clear that the British people don't actually want mass-immigration into our country.

But we're being forced to put up with it. 

I don't want to say anything further on this subject.  

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Okay. Well the good news for you is over 3000 "forrin" nurses are due to be kicked out the country.

The bad news is you might be waiting quite a bit longer for someone to cater for your health in a few years time.

Besides, even if every single "forrin" or Muslim was mass-deported, which folk devil would you complain about next?

The angry mob kicking-off about "forrins"/Huguenots/Irish/Jews/Blacks really is nothing new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_May_Day

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Riots

http://www.newstatesman.com/2012/05/britains-last-anti-jewish-riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Notting_Hill_race_riots

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Bookhunter, couldn't we train our own British nurses, and pay them a decent wage?

Then we wouldn't have to import foreign nurses.

Your whole argument seems to be,  that it's cheaper to import foreigners.  Is that a good approach, I mean it could be used to justify using slaves.  They do the work, and they're very cheap?

[bookhunter2007]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

Since when did Clacton have the honour of being the benchmark for the feelings/voting intentions of UK Pensioners Or is that another Fact you made up to further the cause? I am dissappointed that you feel pensioners are so inferior and poorly educated it is a highly inflammatory statement and frankly irrelevent. As for your earlier statement about the NHS going into meltdown that statement is riddled with inaccuracies other than the number of nursing staff currently employed from overseas which I don't see people complaining about.

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UKIP won by a landslide in Clacton. I also work there regularly and can see why they'd fall for Farage's populism.

"The third-highest proportion in England and Wales said they had no qualifications: 38.8%, against the national average of 22.7%."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28964239

[cee-dee]

The problem with things as they stand is that the country seems to be dominated by liberals (small L) who want to "do good" and see good in every wrong-doer thinking they can all be re-educated and rehabilitated. They also think that the same goes for migrants of the type that are illegally seeking entry here.

Yes, migrants of the past have integrated and more or less "become British" but migrants of recent entry don't want that. They don't want to integrate, they don't want to learn to speak good English (just enough to "get by") and they certainly don't want to become British.

What they want is to set up their own communities, keep their own customs and speak their own language. Then, they want to dictate to us how we should go on.

I wonder if some of the private practices of the community causing great trouble in the World are known by many readers?

[joe_bloggs*]

They don't want to integrate, they don't want to learn to speak good English Spanish (just enough to "get by") and they certainly don't want to become British  Spanish

What they want is to set up their own communities, keep their own customs and speak their own language.

Bit like expats?

[malacandran]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

They don't want to integrate, they don't want to learn to speak good English Spanish (just enough to "get by") and they certainly don't want to become British  Spanish

What they want is to set up their own communities, keep their own customs and speak their own language.

Bit like expats?

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But the British expats in Spain,  aren't trying to force their own customs on the Spanish people, so your comparison is invalid.

[bookhunter2007]

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@malacandran wrote:

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Bookhunter, couldn't we train our own British nurses, and pay them a decent wage?

Then we wouldn't have to import foreign nurses.

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Sure. Sounds good.  Would you be happy to have your pension cut to pay for this?

Anyway, you'll have to take that up with Teflon Dave - he's the one who has cut nurse training places.

http://journals.rcni.com/doi/pdfplus/10.7748/ns2012.01.26.21.5.p7335

[cee-dee]

The ex-pats there have earned their corn here and are spending it in Spain.

[bookhunter2007]

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@malacandran wrote:

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But the British expats in Spain,  aren't trying to force their own customs on the Spanish people, so your comparison is invalid.

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If you think town centres on Friday nights here are messy, you should check out Magaluf, San Antonio, Benidorm, and Lloret.

[bookhunter2007]

Yeah - Rule Britannia!

"If you find yourself on the Costa Blanca and it’s a pint of Kentish bitter you’re craving, there’s no better place – they have it imported – than the English Speaking Club in El Campello, a small village 20 minutes’ drive north of Alicante.

The club’s only rule, as its name suggests: speak English. Founded in 1979, the year that Margaret Thatcher swept to power, the club is a bastion of Britishness. The Union flag flies outside; The Queen’s portrait hangs on the wall; and on Fridays, it’s Fish and Chips night."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/beware-of-immigration-say-the-british-expats-enjoying...

[fallen-archie]

So by your own admission it (Clacton) is NOT representitive but convenient because you visit there from time to time. For one obsessed with links stats and everything anti british that's a very poor response.

[malacandran]

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@cee-dee wrote:

The ex-pats there have earned their corn here and are spending it in Spain.

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I don't quite understand what you mean, cee-dee.  

The British ex-pats aren't forcing their culture onto the Spaniards.  They're not saying "No more bull-fights, and you must stop drinking wine and only drink lager",  are they?

[cee-dee]

You quoted an altered quote, look back?

[malacandran]

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@cee-dee wrote:

You quoted an altered quote, look back?

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Sorry cee-dee, the pace is too quick for us elderly men, we groan and clutch, but miss the target.

[bookhunter2007]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

So by your own admission it (Clacton) is NOT representitive but convenient because you visit there from time to time. For one obsessed with links stats and everything anti british that's a very poor response.

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Where did I say Clacton was representative?

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/The-Round-Table/What-s-your-answer-to-this/m-p/4297903#M158269

I used it as an example of an area with barely any immigrants, but lots of hostility to them.  It's also the third-highest proportion in England and Wales where folks said they had no qualifications.

It's a shame we can't discuss the problem of the ageing population without the PC brigade taking offence.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@cee-dee wrote:

The problem with things as they stand is that the country seems to be dominated by liberals (small L) who want to "do good" and see good in every wrong-doer thinking they can all be re-educated and rehabilitated. They also think that the same goes for migrants of the type that are illegally seeking entry here.

Yes, migrants of the past have integrated and more or less "become British" but migrants of recent entry don't want that. They don't want to integrate, they don't want to learn to speak good English (just enough to "get by") and they certainly don't want to become British.

What they want is to set up their own communities, keep their own customs and speak their own language. Then, they want to dictate to us how we should go on.

I wonder if some of the private practices of the community causing great trouble in the World are known by many readers?

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I'm old enough to remember exactly the same argument being made about the influx of West Indian workers, Poles who remained here after the war, Hungarians fleeing from the USSR, Asians expelled from Uganda and so on.  It is time that has mellowed attitudes towards those groups.

I also remember two widespread episodes of civil unrest, (riots) - one very recent and one in the 80s - as far as I am aware recent immigrants and specifically Muslims, (which I presume you are alluding to???), weren't majorparticipants in these.

[joe_bloggs*]

"It's a shame we can't discuss the problem of the ageing population without the PC brigade taking offence"

Yes,those and the liberals,it's high time we brought back matrons and national service

[bookhunter2007]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

"It's a shame we can't discuss the problem of the ageing population without the PC brigade taking offence"

Yes,those and the liberals,it's high time we brought back matrons and national service

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You forgot the Death Penalty.

Actually, the angry mob have a point.  Maybe if we do bring back national service, the death penalty, introduce concentration camps and a police state, folks will be deterred from moving to the UK. Also anyone to the left of Norman Tebbit will want to move abroad - Hey presto! UK's overpopulation problem solved!

It would be worth it just to see the subsequential Defcon 1 esque Daily Mail's headline on falling house prices.

[fallen-archie]

I too remember those changes you mentioned, the Poles and Hungarians integrated well and the Poles in particular fought bravely during WW2, there may have been some voices of descent but not that many. The Windrush saga certainly did have some people shouting and complaining many having never seen an African other than in a book. Without them the Buses would not function although ironically just a few years after their arrival one man bus operations started making many redundant. It is true that integration was slow and that the native population were the main problem.
The Ugandan Asians all seemed to end up in Leicester changing that City completely, once again there was resistance but the strong work ethic of those people earned them respect, yes it took time but they have done rather better than many who came from Bangladesh and Pakistan, these two groups seem to have a real problem with Taxation and easy money like compensation scams, around here if you happen to live in a predominantly Bangladesh area expect to pay massive premiums to insure your car if indeed you can get it.
I think the latter along with more recent arrivals never quite had the ethic of their predecessors. The World Wide Web is also responsible for highlighting inequality and opportunity like never before that brings with it a more savvy type of migrant once again making it difficult and sometimes impossible for genuine asylum seekers to be accepted.
So we have a good track record we continue to take newcomers in, therefore we can continue to admit some but not to the detriment of our essential services. Those on here who are pro immigration might also help by stop defending those who come here to abuse the system and our welfare state. I do not differentiate between those who risk life and limb to steal copper cable or work in groups to beg or pick pockets.
I know some will continue to suggest that my comments are simply those of the red tops or Wail but I stress this is not the case.
Finally the question of Brits living abroad, pensioners to be precise. Many go to extreme lengths to integrate and do not participate in Brit only groups, there are one or two others who seek Britain with Sun. They do this country a favour by not burdening our services like hospitals in the way that the poorer less fortunate do.
Finally would anyone care to put a target population figure that they believe these Islands can house without losing the flora and fauna with whom we share it. Oh and how long will it take me to drive 10 miles to work or to get an appt with my GP.

[bookhunter2007]

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@fallen-archie wrote:
once again there was resistance but the strong work ethic of those people earned them respect, yes it took time but they have done rather better than many who came from Bangladesh and Pakistan, these two groups seem to have a real problem with Taxation and easy money like compensation scams,

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I didn't know hedge fund management and no-win no fee solicitors was dominated by the two aforementioned groups? Not sure it’s helpful to lump the two groups together either. There are some differences - regionally, economically, and culturally.

“Pakistanis—many of them from the rural Mirpur Valley in Kashmir—began to settle thickly in Britain in the 1960s. They often took jobs in the textile mills of the north and the foundries of the West Midlands. Most Bangladeshis came later. Many men arrived in the 1970s as refugees, but the peak of migration was in the early 1980s, when the women and children turned up. They thus arrived when British industry was on the ropes—which was oddly lucky, suggests Shamit Saggar of Essex University. Though many were working in the rag trade, they had not committed themselves to one doomed industry. Pakistanis had: they suffered greatly from the collapse of British textile-making.”

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21644155-britain-bangladeshis-have-overtaken-pakistanis-credit...

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@fallen-archie wrote:
 Those on here who are pro immigration might also help by stop defending those who come here to abuse the system and our welfare state.

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That’s a Strawman. Can’t see anyone on this thread that has defended abuse of the welfare system. However, I can point out posts where some seem hellbent on demonising those who DO work and contribute to the economy and society – even to the point of libelling their good name and business in one case. Can you honestly say that’s “good cricket”?

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@fallen-archie wrote:
Finally the question of Brits living abroad, pensioners to be precise. Many go to extreme lengths to integrate and do not participate in Brit only groups, there are one or two others who seek Britain with Sun.

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Evidence suggests otherwise

“Another study reported that UK pensioners form well-defined territorial and social units, benefiting from the strong value of their currency and previous presence in Spain as tourists or residents. However, a lack of proficiency in Spanish has prevented them from developing closer links with the local community. Other studies also suggested that these EU pensioners tend to be isolated with few, if any, close relationships with the local population."

http://www.lse.ac.uk/LSEHealthAndSocialCare/pdf/eurohealth/VOL13No4/Legido-QuigleyandLaParra.pdf

[cee-dee]

Well it seems the much vaunted assylum seeker is so pleased and grateful for life here that :-  "In the future I'm planning to open a film school and a digital media training centre in Togo (West Africa) where I'm from."