This unfolding tragedy around Europe

[fallen-archie]

We pay politicians to act on our behalf, throughout Europe and the rest of the developed world the plight of those fleeing war, famine, religious persecution etc is being ignored. Surely it is not beyond the realms of sensibility for us to expect, even demand a collective humane response by the international community to agree action in those countries where terrorists reign. Allowing and encouraging the victims to flee is wrong, they deserve and should be given the right to live peacefully where they were born and like the rest of us have the freedom to travel abroad and see other cultures. The Russians and Chinese stand by and watch while quietly selling weapons to these terrorists. The west interfered yet never considered the impact they would have. It is time the UN grew up and did what it was formed to do.

[clifford2031]

[artwisemills]

I think the fact that a child was shown was irrelevant - it does not matter whatever the age of the person who died - its sad that anyone has to die in such a way. However this situation is critical - and the Eu/UK/World governments do not have a clue what to do to end it!

I said before this is not about to stop - in reality it's just beginning. There are not thousands to deal with its going to end up with millions! Taking in a few thousand by whichever country solves nothing, it will probably result in even more starting out on their perilous journey. Satellite News has changed the world and thats an integral part of why these people come.

How many of these people are escaping from war - and how many are looking for a better life in wealthier countries??

Strange that the UK and Germany are chosen over some of the poorer nations of Europe!

The focus is on Syria but there are migrants coming out of Africa through France, through Italy, through Greece, through Spain - I believe we are being led up the garden path with this sudden ideal they all want to go to Germany - because they don't! There was a programme on TV on Monday and it showed the efforts made to get from Calais to Dover - three migrants were focused on in the programme and they all made it - one lady had only been trying for 2-3 days - so much for how hard it is to get here! They all now have homes and get £35 a week in Scotland. Bet it's not next door to the Fish.

As for the figures given about how many migrants the UK have taken in last year - what about the number who get here and don't declare themselves? It's a bit different in Germany - once they are in the EU they can openly say they made it, get residence and then start looking at free movement to another country within the EU!

[astrologica]

I am not blubbing  BH. I am angry that an organisation funded by the licence fees of ordinary people in this country, including myself, which is supposed to be impartial, is churning out continually left-biased information and propaganda. 

[*.*..lola..*.*]

Phew Saint Bob's on the case now:

http://news.sky.com/story/1546777/bob-geldof-offers-his-home-to-syrian-refugees

I can feel another Band Aid coming on...

[bookhunter2007]

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@astrologica wrote:

I am not blubbing  BH. I am angry that an organisation funded by the licence fees of ordinary people in this country, including myself, which is supposed to be impartial, is churning out continually left-biased information and propaganda. 

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How is that "left biased information and propaganda"? The Daily Mail & Sun have featured similar stories - I suppose they've been infiltrated by the Bolsheviks too?

I get the vibe anything short of the reincarnation of Joseph Goebbels becoming the BBC's next Director General would be a disappointment to you.

[astrologica]

You're not getting it BH....my problem with the BBC is that I contribute to the running of it with my licence fee.  And I would like to be able to access some unbiased news.  The Daily Mail and The Sun can print what they want to...their running costs are not funded by myself or the majority of the British public. Your other comments are ordering on the ridiculous.

[astrologica]

Missed a 'b' up there ^.

[bookhunter2007]

You're right, I'm not getting it. I asked "how is that left biased information and propaganda"?

Are the BBC focusing on a campaign by migrants to renationalise the railways or reinvigorate the trade unions that i've not noticed?

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Just a thought...........

Isn't this migrant situation a bit like a bunch of people coming to your front door, pushing it open and saying "We wanna live in your house too"?

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Not really _ more akin to the block of flats across the road catching fire and the few who have escaped death are knocking on your door asking for shelter.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

Hmm, I'm not sure that really encapsulates the situation, Creeky.

"Shelter" can be obtained in the first EU country reached.  The block of flats in your example is not over the road.  It is a long way away, and they have chosen to travel to knock on CD's door (in this example) because it is not simply shelter that they want.  It is a whole new life, with housing and education and health care and pensions, for themselves and their children and any unborn offspring yet to come.

Again, I make no comment on whether this is reasonable or not.  I simply point out the situation is more than a request for shelter from the danger.

[fallen-archie]

It may also be that these asylum seekers had prior to the destablisation of their homelands been gathered around their Samsung TVs watching old episodes of the Antiques roadshow, those knocking on CDs door were probably after one of his fine long case clocks, so I understand his concerns completely!

as far as Europe becoming the home for all these people I believe it is important to find ways which will stabilise their own countries and preserve the cultures of those countries. Nothing wrong with freshening up the mix here a bit but surely they deserve the same freedoms we enjoy and that should be our priority.

[cee-dee]

Let's look at your scenario more realistically eh?

Those hammering on the door and pushing their way inside demanding to live in your house too have been living in a ramshackle camp which is now on fire (as you say) due to multiple fights and squabbles breaking out along ethnic divides.

The people pushing their way in to your house have by-passed community help centres and community housing (tramping for several miles on the way) because they want to give such places a miss and enjoy all the trappings of a more affluent neighbourhood and society so are targeting the "nicer" areas.

Sooooo, are you gonna let them move in too or not?

[tommy.irene]

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@clifford2031 wrote:

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http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/mary-mcaleese-i-was-a-refugee-on-my-own-island-31504299.ht...

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Let's look at your scenario more realistically eh?

Those hammering on the door and pushing their way inside demanding to live in your house too have been living in a ramshackle camp which is now on fire (as you say) due to multiple fights and squabbles breaking out along ethnic divides.

The people pushing their way in to your house have by-passed community help centres and community housing (tramping for several miles on the way) because they want to give such places a miss and enjoy all the trappings of a more affluent neighbourhood and society so are targeting the "nicer" areas.

Sooooo, are you gonna let them move in too or not?

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I really don't see the relevancy of those asking for help having passed 'help centres' on the way to my door.  ???

They either need help or they don't - if you were hurt in a fall would you go into the first shop on a street because they had a first aid box or would you go just a little further to the chemist.

There are many reasons why a refugee might choose a particular country to flee to - language, culture, family, job prospects and benefits.  None of those reasons make their needs less immediate. 

In direct answer to your question the simple answer is that I wouldn't just turn them away.  I'd want to find out if I could help first - and I'm sure most people, including yourself, would probably do the same. 
 

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@**caution**opinion_ahead wrote:

Hmm, I'm not sure that really encapsulates the situation, Creeky.

"Shelter" can be obtained in the first EU country reached.  The block of flats in your example is not over the road.  It is a long way away, and they have chosen to travel to knock on CD's door (in this example) because it is not simply shelter that they want.  It is a whole new life, with housing and education and health care and pensions, for themselves and their children and any unborn offspring yet to come.

Again, I make no comment on whether this is reasonable or not.  I simply point out the situation is more than a request for shelter from the danger.

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Of course the situation is such that those who have fled from danger are looking for more than just a place of safety.

That strikes me as being perfectly reasonable.  

[tommy.irene]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/09/just-wait-islamic-state-says-it-has-smuggled-1000s-of-jihadis-into...

[jd.linklater]

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@marg*e wrote:

I don't mean to sound heartless, but I don't understand why this child in particular is causing so much disruption, he is far from the first child to die, from drowning, to babies suffocating in lorries, not to mention all the adults, so why is this one little boy a turning point.

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As you say this is not the first child to die in tragic circumstances whilst trying to flee to the West. Maybe I'm a cynic but in my opinion the graphic picture was published so widely in the press throughout the whole of Europe as a form of emotional blackmail, ie to get us on side with the refugees and attempt to make this huge expected influx of Islamic people more acceptable. Every day in the press there are photos of cute wide eyed refugee children to tug at our heartstrings, it's almost a charm offensive to soften us up, Well I for one am not buying into it.

The day after that photo was published in The Independent, the letters page was full of admiring comments to the editor for having the 'bravery' to show what the writers called 'the true reality facing those poor people fleeing tyranny in Syria.' A closer inspection of the facts reveals an entirely different story. The family concerned had not just fled the bombing in Syria but had in fact spent the past three years living in relative safety in Turkey. Admittedly life in a refugee camp is no picnic but has to be infinitely preferable to living in a war zone being regularly bombed by your own government. The child's father had already applied for asylum in Canada where his sister was living but had been refused, clearly the Canadian authorities were under the impression that as he was in a safe zone he was under no immediate threat to life. To then take matters into his own hands and place his wife and children in a small open boat without life jackets seems rather feckless behaviour for any parent. It was his own actions that led to their deaths, there is no blame to be apportioned and no reason for anyone in the West to feel guilty about it.

In the long run the publication of the picture has certainly achieved the desired effect. Cameron made more or less an immediate u-turn, Austria and Germany have opened their collective arms to all and sundry and even the hardline Hungarians who at least were trying to get the incomers registered have now allowed them all free access to the rest of Europe. What is of most concern to me is that there are so many 'unknowns' in this situation. How many are genuine asylum seekers? How many are fleeing religious persecution? How many are just chancers trying it on? How many jihadists are sneaking in under cover of the asylum umbrella?  With so many arriving without any form of identification, how can we answer any of these questions with any level of certainty?

[Anonymous]

Exactly my opinion.

[astrologica]

It now appears that the whole background to this poor child's story is not as straightforward as we have been led to believe. It seems that they had been living safely in Turkey for three years, and that the father..far from being a passenger who tragically tried to save his wife and kids, was actually a people smuggler who was at the helm of the boat. His story was that the 'captain ' who was at the helm of the boat, dived overboard when the waves got rough. But another passenger on the same boat has now outed him as the 'captain' himself, and a people smuggler. He told the passenger not to report him as the captain. The whole of Europe was taken in by this mans story. It makes one wonder what else we don't know.

[fallen-archie]

I really hope what you are saying is not proven but I suspect that it is. Should it change the way we view this crisis? I think not for in any society there are chancers, those seeking a living and an opportunity by whatever means they can find, there are many in our own society who fit that description, sometimes they get caught but many do not. What is different in the current refugee crisis is the fact that the countries they are seeking to escape are largely ungoverned free from opportunity, health care, education and above all peace.

That is why it is not only the UKs problem but that of the world, the UN must act and the permanent members must acknowledge that charity begins at home, The best thing the world could do is to create the environment which will allow these human beings to choose their own future, and for them to have ultimate sanction over politics not the Religious fanatics who subscribe to a bankrupt philosophy written thousands of years ago and interpreted to scare and control people.