02-09-2015 6:22 PM
We pay politicians to act on our behalf, throughout Europe and the rest of the developed world the plight of those fleeing war, famine, religious persecution etc is being ignored. Surely it is not beyond the realms of sensibility for us to expect, even demand a collective humane response by the international community to agree action in those countries where terrorists reign. Allowing and encouraging the victims to flee is wrong, they deserve and should be given the right to live peacefully where they were born and like the rest of us have the freedom to travel abroad and see other cultures. The Russians and Chinese stand by and watch while quietly selling weapons to these terrorists. The west interfered yet never considered the impact they would have. It is time the UN grew up and did what it was formed to do.
12-09-2015 12:37 PM
My daughter was telling me that some refugees refused food from the red cross as it stood for Christianity..............
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here................
12-09-2015 12:45 PM
Perhaps that they are different in their beliefs? Jewish migrants escaping persecution remained committed to Kosher food, however I am no great believer in a food regime which includes cruel methods of dispatching an animal, segregation of food etc. I think the right person to advise on diet is a doctor or dietition not an ancient book.
12-09-2015 1:27 PM - edited 12-09-2015 1:28 PM
I'm sorry, but you can't be starving if you refuse food. You have your priorities pretty wrong. They come to a mainly Christian part of the world for help, for aid......................and then they refuse what is given?
So what will they refuse next from the hands of Christians.......housing, benefits, free medical care, free schooling..........hmmm, I don't think so.................
I also think Jews in concentration camps didn't have much choice to eat what they were given...and I don't think any refused it.
12-09-2015 2:06 PM
I cannot disagree with that harry. I am however very aware that these day's in this country we are expected to be mindful and caring toward others, treat them with respect etc etc accommodate the differences in belief and above all not to impose our values on others. So we lead by example sound in the knowledge that one day we will reap the reward of our efforts.
12-09-2015 3:15 PM
Yes....we certainly will reap the rewards for our efforts, but I do not think it will be in the form that we should like it to be.
We do really need to impose some of our values on people who come to live here from other countries. Some of the practices that have been imported in to this country are uncivilised, to say the least.....FGM is just one that comes to mind. I think that part of our reward for taking in these 'refugees' (I really question this term).. will be increased 'ghetto-ism'...with Syrian enclaves added to the others that we already have.
12-09-2015 3:22 PM
Another thing that newcomers will have to learn is that in this country we form an orderly queue...we do not scramble over others to get what we want. Some of the footage from Hungary and Macedonia was shocking, the way most of those young men behaved, with their self serving me-first attitudes. I think David Cameron is quite right to accept genuine refugees from Syrian camps...at least they will have been assessed in some way as to their need.
12-09-2015 3:41 PM - edited 12-09-2015 3:42 PM
Well lets hope we reap those benefits one day. I might not live that long, but maybe in my next life.
Leading by normal humanistic example is obviously not working.
Don't get me wrong, I do sympathise with those in need, but when they start to throw water bottles away I think it's bordering on insanity. Nothing to do with religion anymore. How long do they think they are going to survive without clean drinking water.
I'm pretty sure they weren't offered pork pies, sausage roles or bacon butties.
12-09-2015 6:09 PM
@Anonymous wrote:My daughter was telling me that some refugees refused food from the red cross as it stood for Christianity..............
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here................
The truth?
http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/
12-09-2015 6:16 PM
@jd.linklater wrote:
@marg*e wrote:I don't mean to sound heartless, but I don't understand why this child in particular is causing so much disruption, he is far from the first child to die, from drowning, to babies suffocating in lorries, not to mention all the adults, so why is this one little boy a turning point.
As you say this is not the first child to die in tragic circumstances whilst trying to flee to the West. Maybe I'm a cynic but in my opinion the graphic picture was published so widely in the press throughout the whole of Europe as a form of emotional blackmail, ie to get us on side with the refugees and attempt to make this huge expected influx of Islamic people more acceptable. Every day in the press there are photos of cute wide eyed refugee children to tug at our heartstrings, it's almost a charm offensive to soften us up, Well I for one am not buying into it.
The day after that photo was published in The Independent, the letters page was full of admiring comments to the editor for having the 'bravery' to show what the writers called 'the true reality facing those poor people fleeing tyranny in Syria.' A closer inspection of the facts reveals an entirely different story. The family concerned had not just fled the bombing in Syria but had in fact spent the past three years living in relative safety in Turkey. Admittedly life in a refugee camp is no picnic but has to be infinitely preferable to living in a war zone being regularly bombed by your own government. The child's father had already applied for asylum in Canada where his sister was living but had been refused, clearly the Canadian authorities were under the impression that as he was in a safe zone he was under no immediate threat to life. To then take matters into his own hands and place his wife and children in a small open boat without life jackets seems rather feckless behaviour for any parent. It was his own actions that led to their deaths, there is no blame to be apportioned and no reason for anyone in the West to feel guilty about it.
In the long run the publication of the picture has certainly achieved the desired effect. Cameron made more or less an immediate u-turn, Austria and Germany have opened their collective arms to all and sundry and even the hardline Hungarians who at least were trying to get the incomers registered have now allowed them all free access to the rest of Europe. What is of most concern to me is that there are so many 'unknowns' in this situation. How many are genuine asylum seekers? How many are fleeing religious persecution? How many are just chancers trying it on? How many jihadists are sneaking in under cover of the asylum umbrella? With so many arriving without any form of identification, how can we answer any of these questions with any level of certainty?
Well said.
We need a massive international diplomatic effort to set up enclaves. Ideally Britain would not be involved in putting troops on the ground, but we should be willing to consider that, bearing in mind that this is not the offensive programme by troops that people in Britain recoil from, it's a defensive action. It would be done under the United Nations charter 7 mandate which would allow them to defend themselves.
We are talking about an international body, hopefully composed of troops from Jordan, Egypt, and other countries in the region willing to shoulder the the burden but it would need to have massive capacity to defend itself and those in the enclave, were they to be attacked, but it would not attack anyone, it would defend the people in the enclave.
Yes jd, what is most concerning to you is that there are so many ''unknowns'' in this situation. Far too many. And this should be recognized as a Global problem IMO.
12-09-2015 6:45 PM
https://www.google.es/search?q=refugees+refused+food+from+the+red+cross&gws_rd=cr&ei=m2P0VdS_K8GRaNHaprgF
@bookhunter2007 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:My daughter was telling me that some refugees refused food from the red cross as it stood for Christianity..............
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here................
The truth?
http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/
12-09-2015 6:51 PM
@tommy.irene wrote:https://www.google.es/search?q=refugees+refused+food+from+the+red+cross&gws_rd=cr&ei=m2P0VdS_K8GRaNHaprgF
@bookhunter2007 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:My daughter was telling me that some refugees refused food from the red cross as it stood for Christianity..............
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here................
The truth?
http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/
Thanks for the Google tips. I'm sure "KnightTemplarInternational" et al's "truth" will be much more reassuring to the wannabe Breivik's out there.
12-09-2015 7:03 PM - edited 12-09-2015 7:08 PM
12-09-2015 7:18 PM
http://shoebat.com/2015/09/04/muslim-invaders-posing-as-refugees-are-throwing-away-food-and-water-gi...
@tommy.irene wrote:
On the BBC News we saw them throw the water back at the Police when they tried to feed them on the train..
12-09-2015 7:40 PM
@tommy.irene wrote:http://shoebat.com/2015/09/04/muslim-invaders-posing-as-refugees-are-throwing-away-food-and-water-gi...
@tommy.irene wrote:
On the BBC News we saw them throw the water back at the Police when they tried to feed them on the train..
Thanks for the link. It's refreshing to see the same videos with different titles of varying hyperbole. Did Shoebat's link persuade you to embrace Jesus btw?
This is like "Guns 'n' God" Bingo. Anyone got a link from Terry Jones and a quote from the Phelps family for a full-house? Or maybe even President Trump?
#StopTheWorldIWantToGetOff
12-09-2015 8:50 PM
Whether it is or isn't about religion, they refuse the aid given. Give me one good reason why someone fleeing war and persecution would do that.
12-09-2015 9:00 PM
@bookhunter2007 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:My daughter was telling me that some refugees refused food from the red cross as it stood for Christianity..............
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here................
The truth?
http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/
Well if it's the truth you want, why not mention that the dead boy who was pictured drowned was not a fleeing refugee as his family had been living and working in Turkey since 2012, and that his father a suspected people smuggler was in command of the boat when it capsized and caused his sons death.
Or because his father had applied for entry in to Canada and had been turned down has now used the deaths [there was more than one fatality on that day] he caused to lay the blame on the Canadian Government for more sympathy from bleedin hearts.
Or how and this is coming straight from the fathers sister, the father had all intentions eventually of joining the queue of migrants trying to gain entry here because he wanted his teeth fixed for free.
12-09-2015 9:04 PM
@Anonymous wrote:Whether it is or isn't about religion, they refuse the aid given. Give me one good reason why someone fleeing war and persecution would do that.
I'n fortunate enough to have never been in that situation, but if I'd been kettled and manhandled by the pigs for hours in the pouring rain, getting a swig of water wouldn't exactly be a priority for me either.
12-09-2015 9:22 PM
@mikes*corvettes wrote:
@bookhunter2007 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:My daughter was telling me that some refugees refused food from the red cross as it stood for Christianity..............
I'm sorry but I must be missing something here................
The truth?
http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/
Well if it's the truth you want, why not mention that the dead boy who was pictured drowned was not a fleeing refugee as his family had been living and working in Turkey since 2012, and that his father a suspected people smuggler was in command of the boat when it capsized and caused his sons death.
Or because his father had applied for entry in to Canada and had been turned down has now used the deaths [there was more than one fatality on that day] he caused to lay the blame on the Canadian Government for more sympathy from bleedin hearts.
Or how and this is coming straight from the fathers sister, the father had all intentions eventually of joining the queue of migrants trying to gain entry here because he wanted his teeth fixed for free.
Well, looks like some folks have found an unlikely propaganda ally in ISIS in preventing more Syrians from fleeing.
12-09-2015 9:29 PM
If they had complied with EU law, and agreed to being registered when they arrived there, they would not have been 'kettles and manhandled'. Why not register? What did they have to hide? A true refugee would want to kiss the ground in the first country that offers him a safe haven. Isn't that what the word refugee comes from.....Refuge!
12-09-2015 9:35 PM
@astrologica wrote:If they had complied with EU law, and agreed to being registered when they arrived there, they would not have been 'kettles and manhandled'. Why not register? What did they have to hide? A true refugee would want to kiss the ground in the first country that offers him a safe haven. Isn't that what the word refugee comes from.....Refuge!
Most people who live in the EU don't know what EU law is, so I doubt anyone who lives outside it will be none the wiser either.
Oh and some of the kettling and 'manhandling' went wider than just the police: