Tax Credits

[astrologica]

There seems to be a lot of controversy about the Government's intention to cut Tax Credits. The BBC have done a few items about this, choosing members of the public who are in receipt of these credits to appear and present their case and say how hard it would be for them. There was one lady who protested on Question Time last week, who was a mother of four or five children, and another this morning who had six children! Why do these women have so many children that they can't afford to keep? There is no excuse these days...birth control is readily available. I have never heard anyone challenge them as to why they have so many children, and who do they think is going to pay for them.  I have a cat...I would dearly love to give a good home to another one, but I have to take account of what it is going to cost to take care of another one, so I won't have one.  Maybe these women should think first before producing child after child. It is irresponsible to have them and then assume that the state will pay for them.

[fionajohnston]

unfortunatey the media only go for the ones that make the best story there is 1000/s affected by these cuts 

in my case i get £75 i am disabled and work part-time this money pays my petrol which is around £40-£50 a week as i live 40 miles from work (nothing available closer)even my doctor and local shop is a round trip of 10 miles

there must be alot of people in similar positions as me

[fallen-archie]

I agree Astro, some try to save, working and developing their lives before starting a family, others skip the work thing and go for it, often breeding with the help of numerous partners and we as a society try to support the victims of this selfish attitude which are of course the children. Too many incentives, credits for example, lead to a dependancy which many cannot escape from, this dependency then places us all in a difficult situation whereby we have to face up to hard semmingly uncaring decisions. Yet people in work face a similar problem without any uproar, they are expected to work longer hours, take pay cuts, have holidays which suit the needs of their employer and much much more. Life can be hard and very demanding and with the current level of national debt it's time to address the problem head on and never to allow it to happen again.

[joe_bloggs*]

Heres a decent take on the current tax credit crisis from Bill Mitchell who is a Professor in Economics and Director of the Centre of Full Employment and Equity (CofFEE), at the University of Newcastle, NSW, Australia.

In 2012, the British government, which had for the first two years of its last term, realised that it was going to drive the economy back into deep recession if it maintained its fiscal austerity plans. It had spent the previous two years telling everyone how it had to cut into the fiscal deficit to save Britain but by 2012 the data was telling the government that their view of the world did not accord with reality.

As a consequence they curtailed the austerity onslaught and allowed the deficit to grow and support growth. The result was that Britain avoided a triple-dip recession and the nation demonstrated to its EU partners across the Channel how stupid and reckless the Eurozone’s fiscal austerity was. But ideology often comes back to the fore when the emergency is over. Now with continued, albeit weak growth and a renewed electoral mandate, courtesy of the pitiful British Labour Party, the Tories are once again talking tough and in the Spring 2015 ‘Budget’, the austerity returned with vengeance. The focal point at present of that austerity is the impending parliamentary vote on cutting the benefits to low income families in Britain via the Tax Credits system.

The attempt to force harsh austerity onto the poor in Britain is vile in its conception. But the Tax Credits system in the first place is the result of weak-kneed decisions by New Labour to avoid forcing British employers to pay a decent minimum wage which would have eliminated ‘working poverty’. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. And as usual, when austerity is introduced it is the poor that suffer. A disgrace all around really.

There is often an over-reach among the right-wing governments that feel entrenched in power."..........

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=32188#more-32188

[evoman3957]

Regrettable that so many of this species of ours, should have sunk so low, as to think of the creation of life as a convenience to themselves, a means to an end, a bargaining chip to get a free lunch. From Africa, where they breed as many as they can; to look after the breeders in their old age or to die as child soldiers in civil wars. To the Middle East, where they sell them for marriage at 12 years old; to cement family political ties, or acquire large dowries. UK, where they get the breeders council houses; or Tax Credits, Child Allowance, or a wealth of other benefits. Far East, where they're pimped by their own parents for an income; or sold on for cash lump sums. Or by people from failed states or economic migrants, as a means that can be used to get political asylum in their country of choice. No wonder, isn't it, that when these children grow up, instead of being the proud and worthwhile keepers of the future; they're become the purveyors of the same worthless morals that created them.

[al**bear]

Both woman, used to have really good Jobs and were Married

Both did what the Tories wanted

i.e. They took advantage of the Tax credits & child care allowances

and as (now) Single Mums

RETURNED TO WORK

It should also be remembered, this is the second attack on Tax credits from the Party that has given Tax cuts to the Wealthiest in the Country

[al**bear]

A Question that should be asked

Where were the Lords who represent the Treasury and DWP in the House of Lords last night ?

Both missing from the most important debate about The Departments they represent in many many years

That is why the debate was mostly about 'the Constitutional' side of things

The Debate was led from the Tory benches by the Leader of the House (She was useless) & the Defense Dept representative

Meaning the Representatives of the Departments affected, COULD NOT BE QUESTIONED, an underhand dirty trick by the Tories

Leading Tories also tried to say Cameron did not say twice on live TV that Tax credits wouldn't be cut, just before the Election - even thought Everybody saw Him doing it

[*frogpie*]

As a breeder with six monsters we do rely on tax credits, mainly because my husband is ex forces and has no extra qualifications and now works in healthcare on less than minimum wage. Yes it still happens , and I have joined the  Army Reserves on lots less than minimum wage. We get tax credits because the system is massively flawed, and even government organisations do not pay properly. I have just completed a PGCE after a MA and am looking for a teaching job so my husband can rest. He isn't even supposed to be working.

The real reason that it is an issue is that the employers are not paying fair wages or tax. These are the people to hound. I used to do lots of voluntary work to counter the 'free' tax credits we recieved.

Please do not assume that it is as cut and dry as breeders wanting a free life. It doesn't go that far.

[astrologica]

Frog pie....I am not assuming that at all. And good for you for trying to get a better life, and working for it. I never assume. I have watched News items about this subject, and quite a few of these people have lots of children and no partner. Now...the ones that have never had a partner are the ones that are irresponsible...they assume. That the taxpayer will pay for their children. Then there are the ones who had a partner but no longer have one. In that case the children's fathers should be paying for their children...not the taxpayer. I know that the system is flawed, that is plainly obvious. But the fact is, there are many women who have children without ever having a partner who pays, and this is grossly irresponsible. 

[*frogpie*]

The real problem is lack of jobs, and a fair wage. We have sent production overseas, there are many people not qualified to do well paying jobs, and lots that will never be through lack of ability. Not their problem but a blunt fact.  These people would be in factories or manual jobs, we have less, we out source. We make people have no reason to work, no reason to pay their own way or be proud.  It is the fault of the vast multinationals and governments. They have created the unemployable through their progression.  People need to feel useful, give them back their jobs and their pride. And stop making them they enemy.

[cee-dee]

Going slightly off topic (oh the shame)...... what happened was that "money men" took hold and took no interest in a business, only being concerned with "profit" and "more, more MORE".

Their idea was if it was marginally cheaper to make something "abroad" and ship it thousands of miles back here, they'd rather do that than bother with workershere who were forever kicking up trouble coupled with aging manufacturing sites and plant.

Around 1966 there was "wage negotiations" at the large company I worked for (now split up in to three busineses but it's still going though) and management actually said "You're pricing yourselves out of a job, we're going to automate you". Look what's happened since then?

"Progress" has determined that many, many processes are completed by "automation" and I watch in wonder at some of those machines making parts when "back in the day" the same part would have needed many different operations by a number of different machines (and their operators) all done now in one "go".

Then, just think about what was the backbone of major manufacturing, steel making and shipbuilding. Where is the bulk of that done now? Jobs? Where've they all gone? No cake, only the crumbs left?

[joe_bloggs*]

I think a lot of the comments you read on certain newspaper websites and sometimes on here involve spite,of course you cannot read all tory voters minds,but i,m sure a lot of them were swayed by the main thrust of the tory campaign,which was vote for us and we'll clamp down on immigration and eradicate all those benefit scrounging,sky subscribing,4x4 owning lead swingers who also holiday abroad !

Spite is a horrible thing and fills the papers and channel 5 daily,no doubt some of us have heard of that "homeless" bloke who drives to his plush pad in his Jag after a hard days begging,and of course that jobless bloke who is convinced that there is an entirely different more generous benefit system available only to immigrants and layabouts.

Spite i think should be considered anti-social behaviour,like dropping litter or spitting in the street.Perhaps the woman on question time now thinks differently and made a mistake voting tory,but spite is not a mistake its a conciuos decision maintained with determination even in the face of opposing evidence.I noticed during general elections before this one,crime was a major central issue,recently it seemed to dissapear off the radar replaced with rows about benefits and immigration,the thoughts i take from this is that politicians and now the public regard being poor and benefit dependant as a crime in itself

[astrologica]

The point being Joe, that some of the poor people bring their poverty on themselves and their children, by being irresponsible. And I stress the word 'some'. Of course the Government should help these children....they are here, and nothing can be done about that. But their poverty might not have happened if their parents had shown some responsibility. Are you saying that I am spiteful because I have this opinion?

[joe_bloggs*]

You jumped straight in in your opening post criticising some women without knowing the full facts until Al pointed them out,then you criticised  The 'Briton ' Shaker Aamer again without knowing the full facts,i,m not saying you are spiteful,just perhaps a bit easily led by the media,it can happen to anyone you know,my dear old mam used to buy the Sun,she said it was just for the bingo

[astrologica]

I don't need to look at newspapers or the Media to see what is going on in this country. Look around you Joe...morals are non-existent, and self responsibility is a dying concept, mostly encouraged by successive governments over the last 50 years or so. There is still no excuse for bringing children into the world without the means to give them the basics for a good life....e..g. a roof over their head and food on their plate. 

[astrologica]

And my dear old Mam used to say to me 'Don't you go bringing trouble on this house', and I knew exactly what she meant, because we were poor enough without any more mouths to feed. My dear old Mam taught me to think about consequences.

[bankhaunter]

Obviously everybody who is receiving tax credits are all in that position because they were irresponsible in having children when they didn't have the money to support them.

None of them might have been made redundant, their health suffered in a way which meant they could only do a low paying job or perhaps their partner may have left them or died.

Perhaps we should bring in a law where anyone who wasn't capable of earning a good living wage and holding down a job should be sterilised, that way it would ensure only the middle class and upwards could join with a partner and raise a family.

It wouldn't do for poor people to be able to live a normal life, they are, after all, undeserving.

[mustard-tree]

The government could save billions, by simply stopping overseas "aid"

I am pretty sure that this aid doesnt help the people in the countries it goes to, but lines some big wigs pocket.

[merehazle]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

You jumped straight in in your opening post criticising some women without knowing the full facts until Al pointed them out,then you criticised  The 'Briton ' Shaker Aamer again without knowing the full facts,i,m not saying you are spiteful,just perhaps a bit easily led by the media,it can happen to anyone you know,my dear old mam used to buy the Sun,she said it was just for the bingo

---

'Jumped in'? Really? And then she criticised the 'Briton' Shaker Aamer again?  Where? You are not saying she is spiteful, just perhaps a bit easily led?  What astro, NEVER!!!   She also stressed the word 'some'.

And you even say: ''It can happen to anyone you know, my dear old mam used to buy the Sun, she said it was just for bingo.'' Its YOU that is saying something ''without'' knowing the full facts.  

[upthecreekyetagain]

Joe - I agree with much of what you are saying -the problem in my opinion is that by paying people to work for low wages all that is achieved is that you get more and more low paid workers and the bill to top up the wages grows and grows - in today's values from about £7 billion in the mid 90s to over £30 billion currently!

There is no incentive for employers to pay higher wages or for employees to demand them - the labour market has been distorted.  Working tax credits are no longer a safety net for those workers incapable of demanding a higher wage but have become a prop for businesses.