Sir Jimmy Saville

[thecollectorssurplus]

No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one. 

My starter for ten is this: Okay, I'm not saying anybody is making anything up, but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further. Seems basically wrong to me. Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me.

Nick

[bankhaunter]

From an Elder's handbook.

http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/41036-registered-sex-offenders-in-uk-the-sun/jehovahs-witnesses-and-child-abuse-within/

The last part is telling

[bankhaunter]

Plus this which would indicate that JWs do not not feel obligated to report cases of child abuse to the police.

“We hate child abuse. We abhor it. It is totally incompatible with our Christian beliefs. If somebody comes forward with allegations, they have total freedom to report them. We’ll be totally supportive of it.
“But my understanding is that there’s no obligation for someone who is confided in to report crime.”

http://www.yellowad.co.uk/news.cfm?id=33677

[mitzigirl_123]

#321

No need to seek advice, the link below is one of many transcripts of how a child abuse case was handled.

Some will find reading this distressing:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw100.html

[blackburn_stevie]

May I humbly suggest that this thread has deviated from the original topic and that if folk wish to continue asking questions and receiving answers (well done to both parties for keeping it civil) vis-a-vis J.W. practices, then a new, dedicated thread should be started. I say this because of the Mods crack down in recent months when off-topic posts have been deleted.

[upthecreekyetagain]

To be fair Stevie I don't think the thread has wandered far off topic.

You ask in your opening thread, "why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further."

The question may be specific to Jimmy Saville but what is currently being discussed is how there can, in other situations, be reasons why incidents of child abuse aren't brought to the authorities' attention.

[bankhaunter]

In the Rochdale scandal one of the girls involved was 15 years old, she herself complained to the police and her parents reported it to Social Services.

The police did nothing and the SS. regarded her as having made a lifestyle choice to be a prostitute and as she was only months from becoming 16 no action was necessary.

Under aged girls are still regarded as offenders rather than victims.

[blackburn_stevie]

creeky ... Fair enough. I'd just like to point out that it wasn't MY opening thread. It was some other guy or guyess that I haven't seen since.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Sorry mate :^O

[spawnjohnuk]

In the Rochdale scandal one of the girls involved was 15 years old, she herself complained to the police and her parents reported it to Social Services.

The police did nothing and the SS. regarded her as having made a lifestyle choice to be a prostitute and as she was only months from becoming 16 no action was necessary.

Under aged girls are still regarded as offenders rather than victims.

That's disgraceful way to treat a complaint.Not much has changed then unfortunately 😞

[joe_bloggs*]

Net closing in,or another cover up?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-tory-faces-child-sex-1714162

[**forum-decorum**]

#301 I.wanna

Everyone has their own interpretation of "God" or a theory of how everything came to be – they are just thoughts and ideals.  I have never sought a "specific God" because I do not feel the need to hinge my entire existence on something that is beyond my comprehension.

Mitzi

I quite agree, tis your choice too if you don't have a need to accept the existance of God, I choose to show my appreciation to Jehovah by trying to be obedient to him.

I am more than content to live in the here and now and be governed by the laws of the land of the living.  If there is something beyond my mere mortal existence then I all will be revealed when I die (or not as the case may be).

I am so glad you are content.

As said before, you are forcing your ideals into everyone's face at every given opportunity and unfortunately have used this highly sensitive and grotesque topic for the sole purpose of selling your religious wares.

I don't believe I am forcing anything on to anyone, I am just joining in threads where I feel what I have learnt is relevant to the topic.

I have said that the JW religion makes me feel uncomfortable and I consider it immensely disturbing or "evil" to not give a care whether the majority of the world perishes just because they're not JW's.

Unfortunately I have no control over your reactions, those are down to you alone. People don't always like and agree with what others have to say.

I am very sorry you do feel that way, though, but that is part and parcel of you choosing isn't it.

There are other sects that rely on this form of religious terrorism – “Ours is the chosen religion, believe in it or suffer untold wrath”.  “Do as I say, or die”.

Does this form of terrorism sound familiar where non believers or conformists suffer at the hands of religious zealots?

That kind of bullying is wrong which is why I say it is dangerous and so are the people with that mindset.

As I have said before I am just passing on what I have learnt where I feel it relevant, I certainly am not performing any kind of terrorism or bullying, we as JW's may have a command to do what we do but we have to be respectful, and show consideration to others and it is done because we love our neighbours. the message we want to share is of a wonderful provision of salvation, a saving not of suffering. You and many others accept that mankind dies eventually, well Jehovahs message is giving us a wonderful oportunity to reverse that. That is not terrorism or bullying.

It is obvious that you take comfort in your religion, it makes you happy and a better person but they are only a set of beliefs personal to you and that is where they should stay.  I do not want to go through my life in fear of damning consequences.

It is my experience that you cannot rationalise with a religious bigot nor a madman.  I am not a sinner and it would appear my only sins are not to be a JW and to have been born. 😮

Yes I do take comfort from it, when you find something that that really makes you feel happy and exited about, feel you have found something so wonderful don't you ever feel you want to share it with the people around you that you care for and love, well that is how I and my fellow brothers and sisters feel, we are one big happy family with so many blessing that we are glad to go and share it and to please Jehovah too.

I am so sorry you feel as you do but you don't have to live in fear, but to describe us as religious bigots in my honest opinion is very harsh, because we are very tolerent, loving people who choose a better way of life than this system can offer.

If you are content with life as you know it then that is fine and your choice, no-one can force you to accept anything you don't want to accept.

I would just wonder what word you would use to describe yourself, because you are cleary not tolerent of our faith, and as you mentioned yourself you don't know much about it so perhaps at least gain some knowlege and correct information of it so you know exactly what you are rejecting.

[3-cat-bat]

Creeky, you deserve a truthful answer on this, and/so at the moment I can only go with my gut feeling and what I personally glean from the teachings. So I am going to have to go and check on a few things because I cannot give you an answer outright without doing so.

I understand what you are asking, and personally I would find it wrong too, so I need to know myself. I need to do some research.

Re Creeky's Question and your answer (Post #321) ~ I am wondering what your "Research" has unearthed ... having already had your "gut feelings", you said you'd ~

 "have to go and check on a few things because I cannot give you an answer outright without doing so." ~

but, apart from attempting to tear mitzigirl apart, we've heard nothing further from you on this particularly relevant subject.

[3-cat-bat]

Post #334 is for I.WANNA...

[**forum-decorum**]

Good morning all,

3 cat,

I am just wondering how, politely answering mitzi is tearing her apart?

As for creeky's question perhaps I didn't answer with quite the correct phrasing to be understood how it was meant.

I always try to answer questions truthfully, and always try to put Jehovah's viewpoint over not my own although that is what I have come to believe so I am agreeing with them.

For all the info and contents of reports posted, I have stated what I feel they mean, knowing what I know from learning from the Bible.

When creeky asked his las question, again I had to answer truthfully but there was one point I feel I could post that would address it and explain something about the point of two witnesses but I wasn't entirely sure that I had got it correct or not. As I have to get my fact corrects before I post such important answers where Gods word is concerned I was being honest and saying I must go and check.

I have not unearthed any sinister if that is what you may be thinking, but If I have got things wrong then I will admit it and not knowingly hold any truths back.

That would be very wrong and not a good witness.

I do hope you can understand what I am trying to say here.:-x

I will answer creeky as soon as I am able to but right now I need to get things correct but RL is calling.

:-x

[mr-expresso]

Just to set the record straight...

There is only one GOD and he manages Manchester United.

[margaret*e]

Mr XX-(, now I have an image of God talking to the faithful while constantly chewing.:^O

[upthecreekyetagain]

I.wanna - I would rather you take your time and come forward with a well researched answer rather than an unclear one.

I am hoping the answer will be that the child's well being in any alleged case of abuse will always take priority and that it is recognised that has to include making the civil authorities aware of any allegations.

Anything less is a frightening prospect and would throw the same sort of shadow over the JW as has fallen over the Catholic Church in recent years.

[mitzigirl_123]

Okay both my posts have been removed so I will let the debate run without me.

I would rather someone add or detract from what has been said rather than press a button with no comment.

That is not what a debating forum is all about and to be honest a pretty pointless exercise.

Carry on!

[bankhaunter]

I'm sure someone mentioned JWs were tolerant.

Perhaps not.

[3-cat-bat]

Yes Bank, I'm sure it was repeately stated that JWs were 'tolerant'.

I'm with you Mitzigirl, I'm walking from this one.