Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

[lambsy_uk]

I'm not here to trample all over people's faith/beliefs but to ask if/why such beliefs should hold such high value in our society?

So where am I comming from? Well we can freely question almost anything in our society/lives; morals, political beliefs, actions and reactions, motivations, interactions, foreign policy, education, welfare, how we raise our children, law and order and so on..........

However we are positively discouraged from questioning people's faith/beliefs/religion! We are also actively encouraged to accommodate and allow for people's religious beliefs, and this is the bit that really irks me! Why is it that if something is done in the name of a religious belief/practice then we are expected to accept it with little fuss where if any other excuse were used we'd be up in arms?

We endure arguments of whether animal rights should take precedence over religion, whether saving the life of a child should take precedence over their parent's beliefs, should freedom of expression take precedence over religious sensitivities?

For me you may as well base stuff on the football team you support;

"I can't comply with the company dress code because I'm a United fan and therefore I must be allowed to wear a United shirt at work."

As far as I'm concerned this is no more ridiculous than anything done/not done in the name of religious beliefs!

So why do religious beliefs hold such high status and is it right that they do?

[upthecreekyetagain]

There is every bit as much evidence to believe that the Greek Gods do exist and are responsible for the creation of the Earth as there is for any other God - perhaps more so.

I like this argument for the existence of more than one God -

1 Gazelles are perfectly designed for running away from lions.
2 Lions are perfectly designed for chasing gazelles.
3 This design cannot happen by chance.
4 Therefore, the design of lions and gazelles must be the result of intervention by an intelligent agent.
5 Gazelles and lions are each designed to thwart the design of the other (from 1 and 2)
7 Therefore, gazelles and lions had seperate designers competing against one another.
8 Grapes are perfectly designed to be useful to make wine out of.
9 What has this to do with gazelles and lions?
10 Therefore, there was yet another designer who made grapes.
11 Therefore, Dionysus.
12 There are also lots of other designers (from 7)
13 Therefore, the rest of the Olympian gods exist.

[cee-dee]

Is that what's called Flawed Logic?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

Is that what's called Flawed Logic?

---

Absolutely, but on the other hand no more flawed than those who believe that because there is no comprehensible, (to them), explanation as to how there could have been a 'big bang' born out of nothing there must be some celestial being responsible for the birth of the Universe.

[bankhaunter]

It's the sort of logic creationists use but which unfortunately doesn't always work to their advantage.

It's odd how the 'Intelligent Designer' failed to put the larygeal nerve the right side of the aortic arch when they designed the giraffe in order that it didn't have to travel all the way from the larynx down to the heart then back again up that long neck to the brain.

Of course when he designed the early fish it didn't matter, they didn't have necks.

[cee-dee]

For all we know....... the Universe is "never ending" and every so often there's a "Big Bang" caused when the remnants of a dead part of the Universe explode. That is, where large collections of dead stars & planets have come together under gravity in a gigantic (I'd better not say "almighty"?) accumulation of matter which eventually goes off in a "Big Bang" due to the immense pressure (+ heat?).

The ensuing explosion creates a "new" part of the Universe all over again. Big Bangs, for all we know may well happen "all over" the Universe and the part we know as "The Universe" is just "our" small bit of it.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

For all we know....... the Universe is "never ending" and every so often there's a "Big Bang" caused when the remnants of a dead part of the Universe explode. That is, where large collections of dead stars & planets have come together under gravity in a gigantic (I'd better not say "almighty"?) accumulation of matter which eventually goes off in a "Big Bang" due to the immense pressure (+ heat?).

The ensuing explosion creates a "new" part of the Universe all over again. Big Bangs, for all we know may well happen "all over" the Universe and the part we know as "The Universe" is just "our" small bit of it.

---

Quite possibly - alternatively there may be one or more 'Almighty' beings responsible for it all.

[cee-dee]

Where you have more than one of any living thing (and any almighty being would have to be "living" in order to do anything)..... you have confrontation, competition and conflict.

The only conflict I can see (!!!) out there is Gravity. Oh, here's a new one, it's Gravity that's The almighty being?

[merehazle]

---

@**bustysinclaire** wrote:

---

@merehazle wrote:

---

@**bustysinclaire** wrote:

---

@tommy.irene wrote:

---

@**bustysinclaire** wrote:

---

@**forum-decorum** wrote:

We had a good Watchtower study today.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2014603

What Is the Role of Women in Jehovah’s Purpose?

---

My apologies. I posted the above with the wrong ID:smileymad:

---

Do you really believe all that.. Another man made story.

---

Yes Tommy, I really do.

I have researched and studied a lot of information, statements and what I believe to be an abundance of facts and come to the conclusion that it isn't man made stories, I have not just sat back and taken anything as true without question, mine is not a blind faith.

---

Hello busty. 

Well isnt science man made?   Would you agree that science is searching for God? 

I support science over religion and I'm an athiest. I just hate all the oppression on the right to use one's brain that has occurred in the name of God. I love Greek mythology, although I don't believe in it. But then, in the history of the U.S, I doubt there was much oppression on higher thinking in the name of Zeus and Athens, was there?

BTW I think your last five words has assured further comment. But I might be wrong? 

Thank you. I might be back later this evening. 

---

Hello merehazle.

I don't believe science is man made. All scientists are doing is discovering and trying to understand what God has already created. Some things they get right and the Bible will back them up and other things for example, the formation of the universe and planet earth they think they know what has really occurred but their interpretations of their findings are way off.

Take for instance the big bang, scientists have been able to figure out what it was and reconstructed it. That is all it was a reconstruction, God had already done it. (and no, I am not saying God's big bang was the begining of evolution)

We were made with a fantastic vital organ the brian, we were meant to use it, at the moment we only use about 2/3rds of our brain. In this limited system we live in and the fact that mankind is dying makes the use of it somewhat restricted. Those restricitons will soon be removed, we have so much more potential where our brains capabilities are concerned.

Greek mythology is just a collection of stories, obviously I don't believe in it either.

---

Yes busty, but some of us have the extraordinary habit of only believing what we see.

That's what we were given eyes for after all. There are so many things that influence my decision. One the holocaust. The other... I witnessed a tiger being killed by a red hot poker being thrust up it's back passage. This was done to avoid spoiling it's coat, and in the few moments that I witnessed it (I picked it by accident on-line some years ago) such horiffic screams I will never ever forget. They closed a bamboo cage on it so it could not move. Where the hell was God?

And if he could not instill into his wonderful creation ''HUMANS'' a mind that would never ever do that. Then WHY NOT???

[**bustysinclaire**]

Yes busty, but some of us have the extraordinary habit of only believing what we see.

That's what we were given eyes for after all. There are so many things that influence my decision. One the holocaust. The other... I witnessed a tiger being killed by a red hot poker being thrust up it's back passage. This was done to avoid spoiling it's coat, and in the few moments that I witnessed it (I picked it by accident on-line some years ago) such horiffic screams I will never ever forget. They closed a bamboo cage on it so it could not move. Where the hell was God?

And if he could not instill into his wonderful creation ''HUMANS'' a mind that would never ever do that. Then WHY NOT???

I can understand what you are saying merehazle really.

If I hadn't come to know this faith/religion (the truth as we do call it) then I think I would feel like yourself.

I do hate unfair treatment, serious maltreatment and cruelty etc.

With the truth as I know it we have to look at it as a whole, the start to finish, God's reasons for creation, how he created, his purposes, how things became as they are now and what he is doing to rectify it. We, as we are imperfect only look at it from the point of view of a mere small speck of a very insignificant immortal being. Compared Jehovah God we are minuscule by comparison. It is hard for us to imagine anything greater than our very short life.

A thousand years is but a day to God.

God created mankind perfect but with the ability to choose, he could if he had wanted to create us all the same with no understanding of wanting to choose etc, but because he is a God of love he chose to create us with a brain to think and choose with, to experience different emotions and sensations and enjoyments within the boundaries of his purpose, which was to enjoy life and fill the earth with others to interact with. Animals and vegetation was created for our enjoyment and to sustain life and it was originally meant to be for ever.

That purpose has never changed but it was interrupted by Satan who chose to become an opposer of God and mislead Adam and Eve you know the rest from there. Sin entered into the world and all the bad that comes with it. As God's purpose has never changed he lovingly set in place a plan and promise to restore righteousness and reverse the death penalty that sin brought. God is still in the process of doing that, he has lovingly kept to his promise and never left mankind, he is working every minute to bring that restoration about, but there are so many issues that Satan opened that need to be answered (it takes time not as we know it but as God does) God knows our sufferings he knows the wickedness that is going on and he is working to rid the world of it. We just have to be patient and trust him to do it. He has promised us he will.

Rev. 21 3-4 Hew will wipe out every tear from their eyes and death will be no more.

When God fulfills his promises, he will be able to erase every bit of pain and suffering that anyone has suffered and restore happiness and peace.

Jehovah God, does love mankind he has never stopped but he can see the situation from above, the whole world and his working to restore it back has to be benefiting the world as a whole.

I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.

I am sorry to waffle on but I am answering you in the only way I know how and to the best of my ability.

[bankhaunter]

Satan, Adam and Eve et al is an invented get out clause to explain why the supposed all powerful being is unable to prevent bad things happening, if there really were such a being they could do anything with just a click of their fingers.

I became an atheist because, with careful examination, I came to the inevitable conclusion that the whole God thing was nothing more than a construct orignally by men who knew little of the world and which was embellished over the years mostly to answer overwise awkward questions that could expose the construct for what it was.

I do hate unfair treatment, serious maltreatment and cruelty etc.

If that is true why on earth do you have any support for the monster that is the God of the Bible, he was plainly guilty several times over of all those.

And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sits upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

What did they do wrong?

And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tore forty and two of the youths.

A somewhat drastic punishment for laughing at a man's bald head, just a tad unfair methinks.

[tommy.irene]

That purpose has never changed but it was interrupted by Satan who chose to become an opposer of God and mislead Adam and Eve you know the rest from there. Sin entered into the world and all the bad that comes with it. As God's purpose has never changed he lovingly set in place a plan and promise to restore righteousness and reverse the death penalty that sin brought. God is still in the process of doing that, he has lovingly kept to his promise and never left mankind, he is working every minute to bring that restoration about, but there are so many issues that Satan opened that need to be answered (it takes time not as we know it but as God does) God knows our sufferings he knows the wickedness that is going on and he is working to rid the world of it. We just have to be patient and trust him to do it. He has promised us he will.

Rev. 21 3-4 Hew will wipe out every tear from their eyes and death will be no more.

When God fulfills his promises, he will be able to erase every bit of pain and suffering that anyone has suffered and restore happiness and peace.

Jehovah God, does love mankind he has never stopped but he can see the situation from above, the whole world and his working to restore it back has to be benefiting the world as a whole.

I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.

I am sorry to waffle on but I am answering you in the only way I know how and to the best of my ability.

---

He,s talking a long time to change things..A lot of people have died waiting for things to happen..

[saasher2012]

If this God was all powerful then why hasn't it sorted out the cause of all this evil ie Satan instead of punishing others?.
If indeed Satan was a fallen angel then he has dissension in his own ranks.

[bankhaunter]

Satan is the answer to those who claim God cannot reveal himself because it would take away free will.

However Satan knows full well God exists but apparently that knowledge didn't stop him from doing his own thing so there is no reason for God not to make his presence abundantly clear, if he actually existed of course.

God loves you (as long as you are really crawly, lick his boots and kiss some other part).

[merehazle]

Hello Busty.     This is also partly in reply to your #489: 

God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, ''Lord, we don't need you anymore.

Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing.

In other words, we can now do what you did in the 'beginning'.''

''Oh, is that so? Tell me...'' replies God.

''Well, says the scientist, ''we can take dirt and form it into the likeness of You and breathe life into it,

 thus creating man.''

 ''Well, that's interesting. Show Me.''  So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil.

''No, no, no...'' interrupts God,  Get your own dirt.''

Really not a joke at all, but rather reality Busty.

And as Spock might say do you see the ''logic''?  It's true though isn't it... if it's illogical, it's illogical.  Science, is only  searching for the TRUTH. 

[**bustysinclaire**]

I became an atheist because, with careful examination, I came to the inevitable conclusion that the whole God thing was nothing more than a construct orignally by men who knew little of the world and which was embellished over the years mostly to answer overwise awkward questions that could expose the construct for what it was.

In that regard then Bank you are clearly being influenced,  blinded and controlled by Satan. He is the cause of you not willing to accept that you have a chance to be included in the paradise and everlasting life that God has promised.  How Sad to be a slave of one so wrotten.

Satan does know he has a very short time left, he knows his fate that he is finally going to be destroyed so he is doing his uttmost now to keep as many people like yourself from a good relationship with our creator.

If you fail to accept God and hold him in contempt like you do so be it, you are making your choice.

[**bustysinclaire**]

You missed the content of my post again saasher.

That has been answered. xx

[saasher2012]

Then I can only conclude from that, that this God enjoys the suffering he sees & he hasn't the power that he says he has.
Satan if indeed he exists is running rings round him!

[**bustysinclaire**]

God loves you (as long as you are really crawly, lick his boots and kiss some other part).

No not at all,

God as the creater is derserving of our appreciation and obendience, it is up to all of us to be humble enough to accept that he is and show our appreciation by our obedience.

You yourself would very much like your own children to appreciate your care and love wouldn't you? (of course I will know and expect your comeback on that comment xx)

[cee-dee]

Speaking of missed content, you missed #467.

[tommy.irene]

The only people who know they are right and everyone else is wrong........ https://www.google.co.uk/#q=are+jw+the+true+religion