Open Borders.

[cee-dee]

So, they wanted open borders, they've got open borders and what's happened?

Cowardly people are able to travel unhindered all over Europe carrying ammunition, guns and explosives with the sole intent of murdering people who've done no-one any harm.

One of the main obstacles to the same thing happening here more often is the Channel and although there's reasonably high security, in the face of such desparate criminals, it's still not enough.

Those cowardly people would never try to face off to those equally armed, no, they, like all bullying cowards pick on people unable to fight back.

Sooooo, what do you think we should do about it?

[jd.linklater]

I don't know what could be done to further improve security at the Channel Tunnel other than thoroughly searching every vehicle coming in our direction. That would create such a backlog that ferry traffic would increase by a huge amount and unless their security was similarly stepped up we would just be closing one loophole and opening another.

[evoman3957]

The EU is like having a back Door you can't lock.

[cee-dee]

Have you seen those truck-sized X-Ray machines they use in the USA?

They detect anomalies for further, manual checking.

[mikes*corvettes]

The problem is that the people who wish harm on us are already here and anything we do now is just a case of damage limitation.

[evoman3957]

Yep....nothing like a good bit of co-operation and we'd get so much more if we stayed in Europe wouldn't we; I mean just look at the level of intelligence and sheer brilliance that is protecting us all.

http://news.sky.com/story/1666684/what-we-know-about-the-brussels-bombers

[astrologica]

A total of 51 stowaways were found in two lorries in Kent, on Monday and Wednesday of this week. It has also emerged that 71,000 foreign 'students' have gone missing in this country, and the government do not know where they are. This government does not have the inclination or the will to prevent illegal immigration. The Home Office said yesterday..' Anyone with no right to be in the UK should leave voluntarily or we will seek to enforce their departure'. So what are these people going to say....'Oh...OK then'!  What a joke!!

Also...four out of every ten deportation flights have been cancelled because of a lack of staff to accompany deportees. Almost 34,000 tickets for deportation flights have been cancelled between January 2014 and June 2015 , at a cost of £1.4 million to the taxpayer.

Mrs Theresa May needs to shake off her leopard pattern shoes and wake up and get on with the job of protecting our borders.

it seems to me that successive governments, since Tony Bliar took over in 1997 have conspired to allow in as many as they can, whilst putting up a pretence of trying to prevent it. All part of the master plan.

[jd.linklater]

This report was issued last month. It shows an 'official' net migration figure for 2015 of 323,000 which breaks down to 294,000 leaving the UK and 617,000 coming in. In the same period 828,000 National Insurance numbers were issued to foreign nationals. What are we supposed to make of this discrepancy? Are the government giving National Insurance numbers to more than 200,000 people who are here illegally?

I was under the impression that we didn't have an open borders policy.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bul...

[upthecreekyetagain]

Do  you really think that that it is an open border policy that allows 'ammunition, guns and explosives' to be smuggled into this country anymore than it has 'allowed' massive quantities of heroin, crack and amphetamines to be smuggled for decades.  The latter have killed and destroyed far more lives than the substances you mention.

Over 10 million shipping containers arrive in the UK each year, the biggest ships can arrive with nearly 20,000 at a time.  How many of those do you think are checked?  Private aircraft arrive and depart everyday with often little more than a telephone call as a 'check'.  How many leisure craft are there around our coast and would it even be possible to maintain the current schedule of channel tunnel traffic if rigorous checks of passengers and baggage was standard - - none of this has anything to do with an open border policy but the pace of modern life and the demand for goods and services.

We live in a relatively 'free' society and one of the consequences, (and benefit), of that is that the movement of individuals is not highly restricted and recording of their activities as the norm is not acceptable. 

If you want to live in a country where this is not the case then you need to look towards the likes of North Korea.

[fallen-archie]

Never felt that isolation solves anything. There is a substantial amount of evidence to suggest that building walls, barriers and similar protective measures might stave off the odd attack but it does not solve the problem. Remember the excitement when the Berlin wall fell? The disaster in the Balkans when one side attempted to ethnically cleanse the other? It is lunacy to think that ignoring a problem affords long term protection.

We would be far better placed if we waged war on corruption, acknowledged that there are massive inequalities between people and all those starving while others live in excess.

We choose an economic model which must ultimately end in destruction, forcing growth at any cost. We abuse our planet, we should care for it. It is not walls and barriers we need but the right to live life free from threat, free from political interference but above all with an air of mutual respect and understanding.

Anyone up for it?

[artful_dodgings]

---

@jd.linklater wrote:

I don't know what could be done to further improve security at the Channel Tunnel other than thoroughly searching every vehicle coming in our direction.

---

Several thousand tonnes of quick setting concrete would help.

[astrologica]

😀😀......totally agree! I remember saying to my OH when the tunnel was built, that we would profoundly regret building and opening the tunnel one day. Just imagine if a suicide bomber did his work on a Eurostar train, underneath the English Channel.....it doesn't bear thinking about. Anyone who travels by Chunnel in this present climate must be stark raving mad.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I had a shop in Brighton when the bomb went off at the Grand Hotel in the early eighties.  A colleague got injured in the Bishopsgate bomb.

What is noticeable is the difference in reaction to these events then and now.  There was a general determination to carry on as normal and not let the terrorists win - so many now seem to have given in.

Far from letting these evil individuals from winning we should be declaring that we won't change our Western way of living no matter what they throw at us - "do your worst, you'll never beat us".

This is an interesting article - at least I thought so.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/24/scariest-brussels-reactoin-paranoid-politicians...

[******lynda******]

It is not walls and barriers we need but the right to live life free from threat, free from political interference but above all with an air of mutual respect and understanding.

Anyone up for it?

i think most of us are, but how do you persuade ideology driven bombers, and the rest of the supporters of a belief system who think their way is the only way, and that the world should follow their path? They don't and won't respect anyone else. 

The more we let in, the sooner they become the majority and have the power.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I don't have the answer to your question Lynda but I am sure that offering them encouragement to continue by reducing our freedoms and way of life is not the answer.

[fallen-archie]

You are right Lynda, I don't see an open door policy as the way forward, I do believe that there are many people caught up in disputes that are as much of our making as their own. As such we need to persuade the politicians that there are other ways, people need to feel safe within their own borders wherever they may be, as moderately intelligent beings we ought to be capable of dealing with that and dealing with bigots, despots, hate preachers, racists and fanatics. Nothing will be acheived by turning a blind eye and pretending we can hide.

[joe_bloggs*]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

I had a shop in Brighton when the bomb went off at the Grand Hotel in the early eighties.  A colleague got injured in the Bishopsgate bomb.

What is noticeable is the difference in reaction to these events then and now.  There was a general determination to carry on as normal and not let the terrorists win - so many now seem to have given in.

Far from letting these evil individuals from winning we should be declaring that we won't change our Western way of living no matter what they throw at us - "do your worst, you'll never beat us".

This is an interesting article - at least I thought so.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/24/scariest-brussels-reactoin-paranoid-politicians...

---

It is an interesting article,especially panicking about it,which will drive the government into even greater infringements on civil liberty,we all i suppose remember Blair sending tanks to the airport ! The wests policy over the last few years in the middle east has been a terrible failure by any measure,if we simply stopped inflicting death and violence abroad that would go some way to end the cycle

[evoman3957]

As I intimated, by the link I put with my post, people actually doing their jobs properly, for once, might be a good start.

[cee-dee]

Well, I've looked at all these responses and I must say I'm disappointed by the lack of understanding of my OP.

Europe does have open borders, far more open than they used to be which has allowed free movement of dangerous individuals along with their weapons and explosives.

Just where have the guns, ammunition and explosives originated? The guns don't seem to be the "back-street" Kalashnikov made for $7 type, ammunition is not easy to make in a "back-street" operation and the explosives also don't seem to be of the home manufactured variety so just where is this stuff coming from?

OK, so there are thousands of containers coming in to this country every day but if you think it's that easy to source the above, stuff it in a container and get it in to this country, have a go and see if it's as easy as you think.

Anyway, I think stopping it coming here is only a "papering over the cracks" operation, stopping the stuff being made in the first place is the way to go. Who's making it? What are they making it from? Where are they getting the raw materials from? What controls are there where it's being made?

As to illegals, people here have bent over backwards and done so thrice more doubled to safeguard the "rights" of the few who might fall foul of unjust deportation all of which allows illegals the opportunity to disappear again rendering the work of those trying to catch them all in vain. This has been clearly shown by those caught but bailed only to never show up again (until caught the next time). Some have been here for years and have made absolutely no effort whatsoever to learn English or adopt our way of life so why did they come here?

What is the point of allowing people to trek right across Europe to try to get here (or anywhere else for that matter) illegally? If you're at some sort of risk in your country of origin, as soon as you've "escaped", you're safe? When you're "safe", surely you can make some effort to "get legal" and legally apply for "admission" to the country of preference?

No, they're largely of criminal intent and have no thought or respect for our country or our way of life, they want to create their own ghettos then claim racism or discrimination when criticised and the thing is, all these do-gooders have ensured we're daft enough to let them get away with it!

[joe_bloggs*]

"OK, so there are thousands of containers coming in to this country every day but if you think it's that easy to source the above, stuff it in a container and get it in to this country, have a go and see if it's as easy as you think"

Never heard of the dark web?