7ryMJjyBMgowKMZdQ~~_7.JPG "cee-dee"){kind=avatar}
hgTs0BSOpO7BeQ!~~60_7.JPG "baybizz"){kind=avatar}
Camoron is said to be delighted with Beckham but then substance seems to be of little importance to him
@fallen-archie wrote:
I have heard little from Joyce Grenfell or Ted Moult on the subject so I am still in a state of flux.
Let me know what Ted and Joyce think 
>> #581: Norway was fed similar lies and scaremongering about economic disaster, being isolated and so on, if they didn't vote to be in the EU in '94. That was a load of bull...
From the archives (text below):
The above text reads:
The Daily Express - 30 Nov 1994
Nej (That's Norwegian for No to Europe)
But They Can Vote Again Soon, says EU
From John Fraser in Brussels
Norway's refusal to join the EU club was greeted with dismay by Europe's leaders last night. But they insisted that the door would remain open, and hoped the country would come out of "ice bound isolation" soon.
As the Norwegian government battled to retain its credibility after the rejection, EU leaders said they could think again about joining in two years, when the Maastricht treaty is reviewed. But with the second "No" vote in 25 years, the chances of a quick change of heart seem slim.
With most of the votes counted last night, the "No" campaigners had won the day by 52.6% to 47.4% - almost the same margin as in 1972.
Speaking after a tense night of vote counting, Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland said "it was the people who made the decision, and we as a country have to live with that."
Jubilant "No" campaigners hailed the result as "wonderful". "With this we have said "Yes" to Europe, and "Yes" to international solidarity, but we don't want to join the Union," said anti-EU leader Anne Enger Lahnstein. The result was a boost for Eurosceptics across the Continent.
But the rest of the Union insisted it would have little effect on its future. European Commission President Jacques Delors led EU leaders in expressing his "disappointment". "Norway could have contributed a lot to the EU, but we respect this vote," he said. "The door remains open to them - the door will never be closed. (Suspicious) But he accepted that Norwegians had been suspicious of his Brussels bureaucracy. He tried to reassure them, saying: "We only add new laws when these are indispensible. It is national civil servants, and not us, who make laws more complicated - they complicate through compromise. " But he admitted "This proves that peoples can at any stage say "Stop!"
John Major said he was "extremely sorry". Norway would have been a net contributor to EU finances and a likely ally. The Socialist leader in the European Parliament, Labour Euro MP Pauline Green, said that EU integration would continue - despite the vote. "Norway has voted for ice-bound isolation." (Blow) "But their democratic decision will in no way affect the development of the EU" she said. "The Norwegian people must now bear the consequences of their own decision in a fast developing wider Europe."
But the reversal is a blow for Europe, where public unease with the EU seems to be growing.
Norway, with 4.3 million people, is Western Europe's largest oil exporter, with one of the world's highest living standards. It is in perhaps better shape than many European countries to weather economic downturns alone.
The vote means only Austria, Finland and Sweden will now join the EU on January 1st, increasing membership from 12 to 15.
@baybizz wrote:
>> #581: Norway was fed similar lies and scaremongering about economic disaster, being isolated and so on, if they didn't vote to be in the EU in '94. That was a load of bull...
From the archives (text below):
The above text reads:
But the rest of the Union insisted it would have little effect on its future. European Commission President Jacques Delors led EU leaders in expressing his "disappointment". "Norway could have contributed a lot to the EU, but we respect this vote," he said. "The door remains open to them - the door will never be closed. (Suspicious) But he accepted that Norwegians had been suspicious of his Brussels bureaucracy. He tried to reassure them, saying: "We only add new laws when these are indispensible. It is national civil servants, and not us, who make laws more complicated - they complicate through compromise. " But he admitted "This proves that peoples can at any stage say "Stop!"
He (Delors) tried to reassure them, saying: "We only add new laws when these are indispensible. It is national civil servants, and not us, who make laws more complicated - they complicate through compromise.
Britain Doesn't Trust The "Experts" On Brexit...
>> 9 out of 10 experts agree: Britain doesn’t trust the experts on Brexit...
>> When the country goes to the polls Thursday, voters will be asked a simple question: Should the country stay in the EU or get out?
>> But as much as anything, the vote is shaping up as a referendum on whether Britain still trusts the people who supposedly know the most about economics, international relations and global security. The vast majority of authorities in all three fields have said the country should stay in and that leaving could be disastrous.
>> Nonetheless, with only two days to go before the country votes, polls show a tie that could swing either way.
>> “What we’re seeing is a rise in the number of people who are dissatisfied, disapproving, distrusting of political institutions, political parties, the establishment, the media and, wrapped up with that, the experts. A certain proportion of people don’t believe a word of what they hear from those they consider part of the metropolitan elite.”
>> Britain is not the only country where that shift is underway. The rise in the United States of Donald Trump, a man not known for his fidelity to facts and who breezily dismisses expert opinion, exemplifies the trend on the other side of the Atlantic.
>> Since February, the pro-EU camp has trotted out endorsement upon endorsement from respected authorities both within Britain and beyond, including President Obama. None of it seems to have made a dent. That’s been exasperating for “remain” leaders.
>> Politicians advocating for “leave” have delighted in the country’s populist, anti-expert mood, and have fed it by dismissing the views of economists, scientists, military commanders, business leaders and others as part of an elitist conspiracy, or “an establishment stitch-up.”
>> Independent economic forecasting firms had counseled Britain to get into the common European currency, the euro, when it was first created in 1999. Britain stayed out, and most Brits are glad that it did.
>> Indeed, the performance of economic and political experts in recent years has hardly been inspiring. Most missed signs that the global financial system was headed for a crash in 2008. Weapons of mass destruction were never found in Iraq. Even the rise of Trump and the potential for Brexit were themselves ignored by most political cognoscenti for far too long.
>> Perhaps sensing that the reliance on experts isn’t cutting through, the “remain” campaign has begun to tout the opinions of celebrities and international footballers...
www.washingtonpost.com/europe/britain-doesnt-trust-the-brexit-experts
