OK, in or out?

[cee-dee]

How about an RT poll?

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

Me? OUT.

[astrologica]

I would like just one of the 'innies' to answer a question. Maybe Lucybelle can do that? I would like them to fast forward 5-10 years, when all those millions of migrants coming to Europe have European Citizenship and all have the right to come here to work and to live. Maybe Lucybelle can tell me where she thinks those people are going to live? And where are the jobs that they are going to do? And what schools are their children going to attend? Just needing an answer to these questions...in case I am missing something. 😕

[evoman3957]

No names, but when I said you needed to get a more rounded view..........that wasn't quite what I meant.

[joe_bloggs*]

Probobaly live next door to these:

[evoman3957]

Don't get me wrong, I went through the " Hippy " thing in the 60's.......Sex, Drugs & Rock & Roll. The free love in the Hippy commune thing ( well not quite that far ).........everybody welcome, food, accomodation & companionship for all........don't worry we'll manage......if we're short of food, there's plenty of Squirrels in the Woods.

I know labour have got one of those types, as their leader now, but I kind of " Grew Up " and realised that, not only is it not a practical doctrine to run a country........but it actually doesn't work...........sorry and all that, but reality is a real pain......I know.

[astrologica]

Thanks for that Joe.....now I'm really depressed.😨

[suzieseaside]

---

@joe_bloggs* wrote:

Probobaly live next door to these:

---

That's nonsense.  Farage claimed that back in 2014.  22,000 arrived. A totally misleading claim.

Peter Wilding, director of British Influence, which is campaigning to keep Britain in the EU, poured scorn on UKIP leader Nigel Farage.

"Nigel Farage said 29 million Bulgarians and Romanians would come - 22,000 showed up," he said.

"Will Farage now show that he is indeed different from other politicians by withdrawing his ludicrous and misleading claim and by apologising to the British people?"

Fat chance of an apology for his stupid scaremongering.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31519319

[goldenwonders]

'Freddy boy' - I suggest you try reading what I said instead of thinking you know what I said. 

Your 'joke'? which sorry, I did not realise was 'a joke'? ...and as someone else said.... was not funny, was in reply to my post. So without seeing any relevance to it, I was under the impression that you thought my comments about the influx of migrants were insinuating that you thought that it was 'me being the racist'!

Being under that impression, I then pointed out that if you thought that (and wished to put 'a racist slant' on it) then you had completely missed the point. As you have now yet again appear to have done!

I think the only question I have for you is ...IN or OUT???? You don't appear to have said? For all I know at this moment in time you may actually have similar opinions to me... or maybe not???

[0125arwen]

---

@suzieseaside wrote:

---

@joe_bloggs* wrote:

Probobaly live next door to these:

---

That's nonsense.  Farage claimed that back in 2014.  22,000 arrived. A totally misleading claim.

Peter Wilding, director of British Influence, which is campaigning to keep Britain in the EU, poured scorn on UKIP leader Nigel Farage.

"Nigel Farage said 29 million Bulgarians and Romanians would come - 22,000 showed up," he said.

"Will Farage now show that he is indeed different from other politicians by withdrawing his ludicrous and misleading claim and by apologising to the British people?"

Fat chance of an apology for his stupid scaremongering.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31519319

---

Farage never said 29 million would come, only dense people don't know the difference between would and could.

[0125arwen]

Out.

[goldenwonders]

Suzie that appears to be yet another example of thinking you know what something says - but not actually reading what something says.

Reading the poster it says "it will allow 29 million Roumanians and Bulgarians to come to the UK" ....NOT that 29 million will come.

They can arrive whenever they want, this year, next year, whenever! And we can't stop them!

And the figures you quote do not exactly paint a true picture. This bit is from the Office for National Statistics and quotes NINos - which are National Insurance No's issued.

In the year ending June 2015, Romanian citizens were allocated the largest number of NINos; the total of 170,000 was a 168% increase on the 63,000 NINos allocated in the year to June 2014. Over the same period NINo allocations to Bulgarian nationals increased by 104% from 22,000 to 44,000.

Now if you do the maths you will see that in 2014-2015  107,000 Roumanians arrived and a further 22,000 Bulgarians, so Peter Wilding who is campaigning to keep Britain in the EU would appear to be yet another liar twisting the figures to suit his needs!

[0125arwen]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/27/small-business-owners-letter-telegraph-conservative-...

[0125arwen]

A senior EU official admitted that he had misled journalists at a briefing on the British renegotiation last week. After confessing that he had not told the truth, he said: That was a tactic. I have tactics, when I speak to journalists I dont speak because Im a nice guy. I want to achieve something. You write it, somebody reads it. I instrumentalise you.

[fallen-archie]

I think you know my views on the current situation Astro I share your concerns and want to see some firmer controls to limit the strain on our public services. What I also know is that part of the problem in GP surgeries and A&E is borne out of an increasingly ageing population and the fact that we take the services provided for granted. Many more problems than we care to admit are caused by over indulgence, mainly alcohol, a growing nervousness among the public thanks to self diagnosis that a bruise or cut could be far more serious and therefore warrants a visit to the Doctor.

Then the mass immigration stats don't quite add up because of the high number of brits now working overseas. I recently spent time in the south of England prior to taking a holiday, many of the services I used were staffed almost entirely by foreign workers, why? Because we have too few willing indigenous youngsters prepared to do the jobs available. If you listen to Business they say India has the most viable economic future because 50% of its population are under 25 years of age. So where does that leave us? If we want to reduce immigration and have our services staffed then we need to see less employed in the public sector and more in the private sector, Benefits ought to be phased out in favour of better working conditions and pay rates and social security limited to those for whom paid work is not an option. It is complicated and it is easy to simplify and get it wrong. I hope that as a result of the referendum should we decide to withdraw the increasingly ageing populace, myself included, accept that they may be the ones who ultimately end up paying for it.

[evoman3957]

When we all learn that it IS possible to tell when a politician is lying.................their lips move..........then we can ignore them ALL and make a judgement on the facts.

Is it costing more to stay in the EU than we're getting out of it

Has it made us better off being in the EU

Is our infrastructure coping with the influx of foreign workers

Is our housing program keeping up with demand, not just for us; but for foreign workers coming here to live and work

Is our National Health service keeping up with demand, not just for us; but for foreign workers coming here to live and work.............................and lots of other points that we can all raise, as and when they come to mind.

The facts for all this stuff are out there, just dig it out and read up on it...........and don't listen to Bankers, stockbrokers or politicians who'd sell their own mothers for the right price.

[0125arwen]

We need to start training our own populace to do a wide variety of jobs instead of stealing another nations resources.
Almost every type of training in the UK has suffered severe cuts which makes no sense unless the aim is to save on training then on wages.
As for UK residents not wanting the jobs, who did them before labour betrayed it's people?

[5129frederick]

Point taken.  I've re-read your post and my answer and have since climbed down off the wall.  If I've over reacted - my cat shot out of the room I apologise and stand corrected.  My error.  Ok?  

Regarding my joke I would have thought most people would have taken it at face value i.e. as a age old corny joke which I felt was topical.  There again, if a joke has to be disected and explained it can't be all that funny.

De Gaulle didn't want us in the Common market.  It was Ted Heath who got us in under the guise that as a single nation we had to get in at any price otherrwise we'd be left out of itso I was all for the idea because until then Belgium had no say in the matter, but I honestly see any point in being dictated to by some tin pot nation telling us how to run our affairs so in or out, I say OUT.  We''ve given it our best shot and it just isn't working.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I don't understand why the major focus in the debate over in or out is over what the results of being a member of the EC are - we've been a member for the majority of most people's lives - we know how it effects us as individuals , the rest is verbage.

What I want to know is what will happen if we leave - will I, will my family's, will your's change if we do leave? - what will happen to resident migrants, what will happen regarding our borders, our trade, our employment opportunities, our national security, our internal security, our health service, our current treaties outside of the EU, tourism, Scotland and on and on.

All of this seems to be of little importance to those campaigning for the out vote and have a scare slant being used by those campaigning for the in vote.

[suzieseaside]

---

@goldenwonders wrote:

Suzie that appears to be yet another example of thinking you know what something says - but not actually reading what something says.

Reading the poster it says "it will allow 29 million Roumanians and Bulgarians to come to the UK" ....NOT that 29 million will come.

They can arrive whenever they want, this year, next year, whenever! And we can't stop them!

---

@0125arwen wrote:
Farage never said 29 million would come, only dense people don't know the difference between would and could.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I read and quoted what Peter Wilding said.  I take little notice of what the beer-swilling Farage says about anything not least because of his shamefully low attendance and voting record at the European Parliament.  I have read that in 2014 he predicted there would be 5,000 a week coming in from those countries, but that didn't happen.

It's blinding obvious that 29 million wouldn't come, even over several years - that would increase our population of 65 million by almost a half again. There would be no space for them let alone work for that huge number of people so it wouldn't happen.  I also seriously doubt that if that ridiculous number of people did want to come here that the EU could make us take them as it is clearly unfeasible for a country of our size.

Regardless of could or would (and ignoring the unnecessary insult), in my opinion that UKIP poster was clearly designed to prey on people's fears about runaway immigration.  Deliberate scaremongering IMO for political gain, and it is misleading saying will allow rather than could allow.

[evoman3957]

Well I can answer one of those for you for sure, having spoken to my Daughter ( who, as you know, works for the Border force on the other side of the Channel ). Despite my wish to leave the EU, I'll be honest and tell you that she told me it would be " Chaos " as far as Calais / Dover is concerned. ALL border force personnel would be brought out of France back to this side, where the checks would be carried out. The tourists could be checked, similar to airport checks, where passports, Visas & the like are checked. The difference is, in airports, we are on foot when going through passport control........these tourists etc. will have vehicles to contend with. The main problem will be the Freight ( on which most illegal immigrants get in ) hundreds of lorries will have to be stacked / parked, while checks are carried out. NOW all illegal immigrants found will be on British soil and their applications for asylum will ALL have to be processed HERE, they'll have to be held somewhere; while that process runs its course and the unsuccessful ones will have to be deported..........as they can't even deport the hundreds waiting to be deported already, that might be a problem. The same kind of border controls will have to be put in place, in every major Port in the Country and on the border with Scotland ( if they hold another referendum for independence and win )..........otherwise illegal immigrants could get into Scotland and then cross the border into England.

There, that answers one of your questions ( about borders )..........I bet your happy now........not !!

[0125arwen]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

I don't understand why the major focus in the debate over in or out is over what the results of being a member of the EC are - we've been a member for the majority of most people's lives - we know how it effects us as individuals , the rest is verbage.

What I want to know is what will happen if we leave - will I, will my family's, will your's change if we do leave? - what will happen to resident migrants, what will happen regarding our borders, our trade, our employment opportunities, our national security, our internal security, our health service, our current treaties outside of the EU, tourism, Scotland and on and on.

All of this seems to be of little importance to those campaigning for the out vote and have a scare slant being used by those campaigning for the in vote.

---

The out campaign has been barred by Cameron from seeing official EU documents, which the IN campaign is allowed to see.

Also they can only canvas for 'Out' in spare time and not working hours but Cameron can go on an 'official campaign' for days on end.

This would i imagine make things difficult for those who want facts on what will happen if we leave to obtain them.

Now why would they deny us the facts?